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BREAKING: Boeing 767 cargo jet operated by Atlas Air has crashed in Texas

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  • #91
    Originally posted by 3WE View Post
    STILL THE SUPER CRAZY UBER BASIC FUNDAMENTALS OF INSTRUMENT FLIGHT ARE TO LOOK AT THE DIETY-CONDEMING ATTITUDE INDICATOR, TRUST IT, DOUBLE CHECK IT(IF YOU NEED TO) AND ADDRESS IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    (Or do I need more exclamation points?)

    Again- I am a bit forgiving of go-around somtatographic deals- high workload and less-experienced pilots botching it...

    But this is sooooooooooooooooooooooo basic that an ATP-AT LEAST- should not botch it (level off's and when flying 20+ miles away from the airport and a mile away from the ground....)
    And since the captain apparently what was happening, how many times do you instruct the junior FO to stop pushing down and help pull up before punching him in the face? (since FO's don't have a cutout switch).

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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    • #92
      Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
      One thing that I am having problems to buy with this initial rumor sort of confirmed (still as a rumor) by BB is that of the captain pulling up so hard that he broke the pins holding the control column. It is my understanding (but I am not sure or even confident of it) that each control column controls its side of the elevator and both control columns are connected via a torque tube that has a spring-loaded connection which, if enough opposite force is applied on the control column, will separate and each control column will control it's side of the elevator independently (a split elevator).
      Yes, that part is highly dubious. The 767 has a breakout override mechanism as you describe. I've seen various figures between 30lbs and 50lbs of force differential required (it is intended to overcome a jammed column, not a column war). The rumor might have misunderstood a report of broken shear rivets on the elevator bellcrank or a sheared spring pin on the PCA linkage in the empennage, which might result from a column war (who knows). The idea that Boeing would attach the column to the torque tube in a way that could be broken by human force seems a bit... crackerbox...

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      • #93
        Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
        And since the captain apparently what was happening, how many times do you instruct the junior FO to stop pushing down and help pull up before punching him in the face? (since FO's don't have a cutout switch).
        Concur.

        However, on the discussion front- One of my most valuable learnings was messing around in MSFS in "mundane IMC (3000 ft ceiling)", drinking a beer...HAND FLYING an airliner as any good Bobby-wanna-be would do...

        I let my SA slip, and developed a good crisp sink...

        Looked away...looked back...Oh hey, just broke out of the clouds- dang the ground is coming up really f[SPLAT].

        The brief version: Concur, but it doesn't take too awful long to develop an unrecoverable dive from 6000 feet...Plenty of time for an early recovery...not much-if not zero- for a late recovery.

        Still, I cannot reconcile an extreme dive- Ground bad...altitude good...that's just almost ALWAYS the way it is...

        Nevertheless, this is all still rumor and yes, I remember the suicide deal where somehow or other the 767 went into "split elevator" mode...
        Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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        • #94
          Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
          And since the captain apparently what was happening, how many times do you instruct the junior FO to stop pushing down and help pull up before punching him in the face? (since FO's don't have a cutout switch).
          They tend to frown heavily in CRM training when you"punch" another crewmember. However, there is a time and a place.

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          • #95
            Originally posted by 3WE View Post
            Nevertheless, this is all still rumor and yes, I remember the suicide deal where somehow or other the 767 went into "split elevator" mode...
            The left column controls the left elevator. The right controls the right elevator. They run separate cables through entirely different parts of the fuselage. The columns are linked via a torque tube under the cockpit, and the two sides of the torque tube are connected via a spring mechanism that is designed to breakout if a large differential force is applied. This is all done to prevent a single column/elevator control circuit jam from prohibiting pitch control. But if both columns are forcefully moved in opposite directions, you can get into a split elevator situation. AFAIK this basic set-up is common to all the non-fbw Boeings, including the older 737's via a retrofit.

            I don't see any scenario in which the right column could be broken by pilot force against the left. It makes no sense.

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            • #96
              The NTSB has downloaded the CVR and issued preliminary information.
              https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-rele...r20190305.aspx

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              • #97
                Originally posted by Highkeas View Post
                The NTSB has downloaded the CVR and issued preliminary information.
                https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-rele...r20190305.aspx
                That's more than 2 months old.

                --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                  That's more than 2 months old.
                  THAT it's 2 months old is a bit newsworthy.
                  Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                    THAT it's 2 months old is a bit newsworthy.
                    It is and it was. We already discussed it here.

                    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                    Comment

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