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Breaking news: Ethiopian Airlines flight has crashed on way to Nairobi
Section 3 para 2 under "Basis For Order" makes for very interesting reading.
Yes, it says.... nothing.
It just lists both accidents and says "On March 13 the investigation of ET302 developed new information from the wreckage concerning the aircraft's configuration just after takeoff that, taken together with newly refined satellite-based tracking of the aircraft's flight path, indicates some similarities between ET302 and JT610 that warrant further investigation of the possibility of a shared cause for the two incidents [sic] that needs to be better understood and addressed"
I'd love some clarification on the bold part. The underlined part is a lot of words to say that there might be something but we really don't know.
I think that thy now they know more than they are making public.
--- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
--- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---
Boeing obviously will be allowed to fly the aircraft when necessary for testing purposes.
Everybody will be allowed to fly the plane with special permits for non-commercial purposes (like bringing back the plane that just landed in Punta Cana).
This immediate ban on all take-offs will have a strong impact on operations. Think how many MAX were about to make a flight with PAX and how many landed in a destination where they were supposed to board pax and now there is a plane and there is no other plane to bring these pax. Even in significant cases the ban goes into effect in say 48 hours or so to give time to the airlines to take measures to minimize the impact. They either have information that make them think that the plane is a flying death trap or they are over-reacting.
Even the rudder hard-over issue had a timeline of many years to comply with.
--- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
--- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---
That said, hopefully now the absolute insane level of hysteria will abate.
Amongst air safety regulators? I would have thought the concern should have been why the FAA were so late to the party. Still better late than never and, thankfully, there has been no loss in the delay.
I presume the debate now moves to whether the planned April update will be sufficient to fix the issue or whether we will need a greater understanding of the issue and why two crews failed to overcome it - the second crew presumably well aware of the disconnect option. A combination of a design issue complicated by human factors?
Gabe. Good that we are here at the same time. That happens very rare doesn't it. 2 questions where I haven't yet found an answer for.
1. Today somebody asked me if beyond the type rating for, and that is my example, Boeing 737-800, you need something else
to fly a Boeing 737 Max 8.
That's a question which I'm not able to answer. Let me see how many changes happened in a 747 cockpit since 1989.
B744 (inauguration flight 1989).
B748 (first flight with Lufthansa colors: November 2011, first appearance in the LH schedule, 2012).
So, since 2012 there has not really been big changes in a 747 cockpit, if you ask me.
And now the 737 Max 8.
2. 737 Max 8, with a completely new cockpit, cp type 737-800?
I admit, two questions in only 1 entry.
The German long haul is alive since 1955, 69 years and still kicking.
The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
This is Lohausen International speaking (est.1927), echo delta delta lima.
It's a shame that trim isn't something that is routinely used except in extreme circumstances. Maybe pilots would be more familiar with it if it was.
I didn't get the joke/sarcasm/irony/whatever, because you are obviously not serious with that.
--- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
--- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---
Gabe. Good that we are here at the same time. That happens very rare doesn't it. 2 questions where I haven't yet found an answer for.
1. Today somebody asked me if beyond the type rating for, and that is my example, Boeing 737-800, you need something else
to fly a Boeing 737 Max 8.
Yes, you do need more. Being rated for the 737-NG doesn't automatically authorize you to fly the MAX.
Now, if you are a 737-NG pilot, the transition to the MAX will be much shorter and abbreviated.
2. 737 Max 8, with a completely new cockpit, cp type 737-800?
No, it is not. Any 737-NG pilot will feel at home in the cockpit of a 737 MAX.
There are improvements made to the MAX but the cockpits, displays, indicators, switches, buttons, levers, layout, etc, are definitively quite similar.
--- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
--- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---
I am fed up of "we have evidence", "there is new information", "new data suggests that"...
Why sin't anybody saying clearly this, this, and that suggest that this incident can be related to MCAS?
There is a time and place for silence...For example someone should have waited a bit before they said, "the control column was pushed full forward"...A lot of lawyer profit AND Boeing's curtains are riding on this and when "something is said", it may be used against you in a court of law...
Remember the ultimate parlour talk comment: WFTFR
Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.
There is a time and place for silence...For example someone should have waited a bit before they said, "the control column was pushed full forward"...A lot of lawyer profit AND Boeing's curtains are riding on this and when "something is said", it may be used against you in a court of law...
Remember the ultimate parlour talk comment: WFTFR
Not if you just report factual information.
--- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
--- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---
Ok...two very new airplanes descended into the ground, probably against the pilot's wishes...and there's a new, not-so-redundant, slightly relentless push over system...maybe we should park the airplanes and check on things.
I'm very much with you on the lack of hard proof...but I dunno- we've grounded "fleets" before for the sake of caution...
Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.
There’s one thing that I’m starting to miss when being flown around the world. I’m missing being flown by highly experienced, highly trained ex military pilots, preferably who at some time in their career had someone shooting at them. The kind of pilots who don’t f**k about with a keyboard when something unusual happens but who just instinctively know what to set the controls to to maintain a reasonable semblance of level flight and thus gain them some more time to work out what is happening.
If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !
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