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Originally posted by flashcrash
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It is disturbing to see that kind of naiveté and denial coming from a former FAA director. -
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-later-crashedAs the Lion Air crew fought to control their diving Boeing Co. 737 Max 8, they got help from an unexpected source: an off-duty pilot who happened to be riding in the cockpit.
That extra pilot, who was seated in the cockpit jumpseat, correctly diagnosed the problem and told the crew how to disable a malfunctioning flight-control system and save the plane, according to two people familiar with Indonesia’s investigation.
The next day, under command of a different crew facing what investigators said was an identical malfunction, the jetliner crashed into the Java Sea killing all 189 aboard.Comment
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Until you clarify if you have ANY ratings to fly an aircraft, I personally will not respond to any of your posts.Originally posted by Evan View PostComment
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I don't know how much more we (or at least I) want to beat this horse... but...
Again, I don't agree with that. You will not be reacting to a sudden pitch-down excursion but to a progressive pitching down motion that, if you are in manual flight, will take you increase your pull-back force in the column to keep your target attitude, and the natural reaction to that is to make nose-up trim inputs, which incidentally will stop the MCAS motion (at least momentarily)Originally posted by Evan View Post
You don't need any special awareness to kick in to use trim to cancel stick forces in manual flight.How many seconds does it take for your awareness to kick in and your pitch trim input to begin?
How do you compatibilize "over 10 seconds" with "abrupt and rapid" in the same sentence?. Sure, if I put the plane in "pause", trim down 2.5 deg, and then hit "play" again, the nose-down effect will be rapid and abrupt. However in real life it will take place over 10 seconds while the plane keeps flying and reacting to the progressive MCAS trim-down input and the progressive pilot's pull-up response until he hits the trim. As I understand (not certain), the trim motor has 2 speeds, and what speed is used depends on whether the flaps are extended (slow) or retracted (even slower), and not on where the input to move the trim comes from, pilot, AP or MCAS. The speed at which the MCAS moves the trim is the same than the pilot moves the trim. If it produced any sudden and rapid pitch excursion, it would be unusable as a trim for the pilot, since it is supposed to be a "fine tuning", very fine, to cancel very tiny stick forces to the point where you can release the yoke and the plane keeps flying without pitching. Look at these videos:How certain are you about that? I've read that a trim change of 2.5 deg over 10 seconds at the speeds we are talking about can produce a rather abrupt and rapid nose-down effect.
Like 13 seconds of trim runaway.
The pitch goes down slowly but the pilot is able to control it by pulling back.
Pulling back does not stops the runaway (it is an NG but as I said and as I have it, pulling back will not stop all kind of trim runaways).
The violent inputs by the trim.
--- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
--- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---Comment
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It's sufficiently beaten. I maintain that the NG sim and the ipad/desktop routine are indequate due to the differences I've sufficiently beaten to death.Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
(the source wasn't me ; )Originally posted by avherald.com
It does take some breakout force or column travel to do this. 5% I think. If I'm reading the DFDR correctly, the Lion Air pilot applied about 30lbs of pull force to the column at the moment of upset.Comment
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5.5 degrees from neutral, according to your previous attachments.Originally posted by Evan View Post
--- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
--- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---Comment
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Sad. Some of us here were really looking forward to your responses. It's really nice that you are not involved in certifying any airplanes. Or in the Congressional Boeing probe. Also that you are not flying any passengers. This is a discussion forum, and for years you have been ruining the discussion and the friendly tone in the forum. I say take your ratings and your certificates and shove them - preferably in a cheap composite or cheap legacy metal frame. And hang them somewhere very high, where the whole world would see them. Seriously man, if you are so important, what are you even doing here? Shouldn't you be moving boxes around?Originally posted by BoeingBobby View PostComment
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Originally posted by Peter Kesternich View Post
UTAir was a runway overrun, not a total loss of control that killed everyone on board. Also, Russia is not a third world country (even though they have the highest accident rate in the world, again).
There were less that 360 737 MAX-es flying, and almost 7000 NGs. One would think you should have done better?Comment
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Wait! Before you go, will you please comment on Sully's criticism of the FAA and the MAX certification process?Originally posted by BoeingBobby View PostComment
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Almost always. Why?Originally posted by thrpst View Post
--- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
--- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---Comment
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Well, if you're still with us, I'm ignoring the question because this forum isn't about me any more then it is about you. If you are no longer with us, then I'm truly sorry to see you go. Just consider this, Gabriel is rated on the Tomahawk and I wish every line pilot had his qualifications. No blue font.Originally posted by BoeingBobby View PostComment
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This guy has become one of my favorite Aviation Youtubers. He explains his experience as a pilot the first 5 minutes or so then goes on to explain why the MCAS problem is harder for even the best trained pilots to respond/recover from than a more run of the mill stabilizer trim problem. Anyways, this guy is trained on the 737 among many others and has spent most of his civilian career in 767 and 777. I am sorry if someone has already linked to this guy or video but he is as experienced as a pilot you can find when it comes to everything from single engine prop to multi engine jet.
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