Breaking news: Ethiopian Airlines flight has crashed on way to Nairobi

[Evan]

Q&A by Mentour. Among other things, he explains why he removed the video (and will never upload it again) and he also explains the rollercoaster maneuver.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q17vykscK0w

It appears that his poor dog suffered a 'trim runaway' as well...

[SmoothAir]

I personally don't believe it. After talking to two different MAX Captain's that I have known for years. According them, if you turn off both stab trim cut out switches, the system is no longer powered.

Ok, so in hindsight, and with simulator testing (with known - or reasonably known! parameters), a few guys have flown a max sim, and do not agree - mostly yanks I presume... ???.... however, they had and have advanced warning, they do not know, and cannot simulate a problem - possibly - as yet unknown.
They do not know how the system reacts when powered back on after cutout - with erroneous inputs and PROBABLE software bugs. !!!!

I call BS. Unfortunately Bobby, that is the classic example of 'hindsight' and testing - AFTER THE FACT. without known parameters. You COULD be right, ? - but, I very much doubt it. You have limited hours actually flying - as do most pilots. You tend to sit there doing jack for hours. The 'low hours' pilots are FAR more likely to react in a positive way than umpteen thousand 'hours' of sitting in a chair. It pisses me off when 'pilots' claim 13k hours plus etc etc when really, they have a few hundred hours repeated with little learned in the aspect of recovery from system MALFUNCTION and Sensory overload. BEYOND normal CRM.
Proficiency in rapid input to the fmc is not the method of judging a pilot's ability to confront a truly unencountered situation. AND, most of the 'high hours' pilots are really button pushers.
FAT DUMB and HAPPY, until the excrement hits the rotary oscillator ! - then, if it is NOT them involved, they suddenly try to protect their arses by blaming others.

YOU could be right, however, I doubt it. I VERY MUCH doubt that YOU or your 'FRIENDS' would be able to recover in such an event - unless sat in an armchair and postulating at leisure after the event.

Holier than thou ?

Pah ! Humbug. septics are the worst by far.

[SmoothAir]

It appears that his poor dog suffered a 'trim runaway' as well...

Ah ! - yes, it is a failure of MCAS ! -

"My cutting arm 'slipped'"

[BoeingBobby]

Ok, so in hindsight, and with simulator testing (with known - or reasonably known! parameters), a few guys have flown a max sim, and do not agree - mostly yanks I presume... ???.... however, they had and have advanced warning, they do not know, and cannot simulate a problem - possibly - as yet unknown.
They do not know how the system reacts when powered back on after cutout - with erroneous inputs and PROBABLE software bugs. !!!!

I call BS. Unfortunately Bobby, that is the classic example of 'hindsight' and testing - AFTER THE FACT. without known parameters. You COULD be right, ? - but, I very much doubt it. You have limited hours actually flying - as do most pilots. You tend to sit there doing jack for hours. The 'low hours' pilots are FAR more likely to react in a positive way than umpteen thousand 'hours' of sitting in a chair. It pisses me off when 'pilots' claim 13k hours plus etc etc when really, they have a few hundred hours repeated with little learned in the aspect of recovery from system MALFUNCTION and Sensory overload. BEYOND normal CRM.
Proficiency in rapid input to the fmc is not the method of judging a pilot's ability to confront a truly unencountered situation. AND, most of the 'high hours' pilots are really button pushers.
FAT DUMB and HAPPY, until the excrement hits the rotary oscillator ! - then, if it is NOT them involved, they suddenly try to protect their arses by blaming others.

YOU could be right, however, I doubt it. I VERY MUCH doubt that YOU or your 'FRIENDS' would be able to recover in such an event - unless sat in an armchair and postulating at leisure after the event.

Holier than thou ?

Pah ! Humbug. septics are the worst by far.

Alrighty then. Never realized I was a low timer.

[3WE]

Ok, so in hindsight, and with simulator testing (with known - or reasonably known! parameters), a few guys have flown a max sim, and do not agree - mostly yanks I presume... ???.... however, they had and have advanced warning, they do not know, and cannot simulate a problem - possibly - as yet unknown.
They do not know how the system reacts when powered back on after cutout - with erroneous inputs and PROBABLE software bugs. !!!!

I call BS. Unfortunately Bobby, that is the classic example of 'hindsight' and testing - AFTER THE FACT. without known parameters. You COULD be right, ? - but, I very much doubt it. You have limited hours actually flying - as do most pilots. You tend to sit there doing jack for hours. The 'low hours' pilots are FAR more likely to react in a positive way than umpteen thousand 'hours' of sitting in a chair. It pisses me off when 'pilots' claim 13k hours plus etc etc when really, they have a few hundred hours repeated with little learned in the aspect of recovery from system MALFUNCTION and Sensory overload. BEYOND normal CRM.
Proficiency in rapid input to the fmc is not the method of judging a pilot's ability to confront a truly unencountered situation. AND, most of the 'high hours' pilots are really button pushers.
FAT DUMB and HAPPY, until the excrement hits the rotary oscillator ! - then, if it is NOT them involved, they suddenly try to protect their arses by blaming others.

YOU could be right, however, I doubt it. I VERY MUCH doubt that YOU or your 'FRIENDS' would be able to recover in such an event - unless sat in an armchair and postulating at leisure after the event.

Holier than thou ?

Pah ! Humbug. septics are the worst by far.

Nice rant, bro. I enjoyed it.

You made some valid points, but sometimes probably over stated things.

At this point, I see two interesting things with pilot performance.

The prior Lion Air crew seemed to do ok and park the thing and I guess didn't make much fuss over their seemingly brilliant feat.

It seems as though the Ethiopian guys had not been reading up on aviation fora about Lion Air.

I also see the terrible irony...MAYBE IF the pilot would have 1. Ignored all the warning crap and 2. Simply hand flown with his thumb on the trim switch...

And if a frog had wings...would it need MCAS?

[TeeVee]

Ok, so in hindsight, and with simulator testing (with known - or reasonably known! parameters), a few guys have flown a max sim, and do not agree - mostly yanks I presume... ???.... however, they had and have advanced warning, they do not know, and cannot simulate a problem - possibly - as yet unknown.
They do not know how the system reacts when powered back on after cutout - with erroneous inputs and PROBABLE software bugs. !!!!

I call BS. Unfortunately Bobby, that is the classic example of 'hindsight' and testing - AFTER THE FACT. without known parameters. You COULD be right, ? - but, I very much doubt it. You have limited hours actually flying - as do most pilots. You tend to sit there doing jack for hours. The 'low hours' pilots are FAR more likely to react in a positive way than umpteen thousand 'hours' of sitting in a chair. It pisses me off when 'pilots' claim 13k hours plus etc etc when really, they have a few hundred hours repeated with little learned in the aspect of recovery from system MALFUNCTION and Sensory overload. BEYOND normal CRM.
Proficiency in rapid input to the fmc is not the method of judging a pilot's ability to confront a truly unencountered situation. AND, most of the 'high hours' pilots are really button pushers.
FAT DUMB and HAPPY, until the excrement hits the rotary oscillator ! - then, if it is NOT them involved, they suddenly try to protect their arses by blaming others.

YOU could be right, however, I doubt it. I VERY MUCH doubt that YOU or your 'FRIENDS' would be able to recover in such an event - unless sat in an armchair and postulating at leisure after the event.

Holier than thou ?

Pah ! Humbug. septics are the worst by far.

an auspicious 11th post to be sure, albeit, not a very intelligent one.

what is it you do for a living and how long have you been doing it for?

[SmoothAir]

an auspicious 11th post to be sure, albeit, not a very intelligent one.

what is it you do for a living and how long have you been doing it for?

Thankyou, it was auspicious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7t8MNkJHp0

What ridiculous statements on this vid. - again, typical septic and a classic example of holier than though. Total muppet ! - disgusting and unfortunately typical. No wonder the free world is mostly laughing at the US portrayal of their 'superiority' (Note - not the people ! - they are mostly (around 60% - decent sensible people)

I rest my case yer honour (notice - with a U) lol.

[SmoothAir]

Alrighty then. Never realized I was a low timer.

Part of the problem really. number of houses does not (in any way) equal experience and skill levels - it equals - errrr - number of hours sat there Fat Dumb and Happy. How much actual FLYING ? - very little. How much experience of actual flying - very little in many cases.
If the cap fits etc. ???. As for you personally ? I do not know. Each to their own.

[BoeingBobby]

Part of the problem really. number of houses does not (in any way) equal experience and skill levels - it equals - errrr - number of hours sat there Fat Dumb and Happy. How much actual FLYING ? - very little. How much experience of actual flying - very little in many cases.
If the cap fits etc. ???. As for you personally ? I do not know. Each to their own.

You have no idea who I am sir. When I started flying I was the auto pilot.

[Evan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7t8MNkJHp0

So this "muppet" is the CEO of Boyd Group International, who is a self-professed "well known as an expert in futurist aviation issues".

This is March 13th and he's confident that we will have the MAX back in the air in two weeks. Because the software fix is only for the 'brown people' from 'sh*thole nations' with low hours who "really shouldn't be in the cockpit"?

And, as of April 8th, is anybody still considering him a "well known as an expert in futurist aviation issues"?

Cuz he don't know jack about this one.

[BoeingBobby]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/878631...struck-object/. Okay Evan, do we sue the bird, the foreign object or is this on Boeing too?

[Evan]

And as for the low hours thing, as an FO, this is essential viewing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q17vykscK0w

Skip to 16:50.

He talks about how 1500 hours in a Cessna doesn't prepare you to fly a commercial aircraft any more than 250 hours, because the CTPL and type-specific training, including procedure, is what matters here(that 'BANG!' was 3WE's head exploding once and for all).

He talks about how a pilot with 250 hours can be as proficient as a pilot with over 15000 hours (that other BANG! was BoeingBobby choking on his cigar).

I really like this guy.

[BoeingBobby]

And Brian I think you are right about the nub. Has to be related!

[3WE]

Part of the problem really. number of houses does not (in any way) equal experience and skill levels - it equals - errrr - number of hours sat there Fat Dumb and Happy. How much actual FLYING ? - very little. How much experience of actual flying - very little in many cases.
If the cap fits etc. ???. As for you personally ? I do not know. Each to their own.

Smoothie...Are you taking your medication often enough?

We have indications now that the Ethiopian pilots were following some procedures.

-Was this known at the time of your YouTube link?

-One might argue that maybe the Ethiopian crew HAD adequate experience since they were doing so many of the things that one is supposed to do.

-I have not seen evidence where the Ethiopian crew spent all their time flying on automation thus had terrible hand flying skills, which contributed to the crash.

Are there times when pilots DO just monitor automation and become rusty...yes. Does that nullify experience? No.

Are there lots of pilots who make special efforts TO hand fly...yes.

It's a little more complicated than what you see it.

[Evan]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/878631...struck-object/. Okay Evan, do we sue the bird, the foreign object or is this on Boeing too?

Well first of all, it could have been hit by a meteorite, so this might get into galactic liability law. Secondly, single sensors are expected to fail. Boeing built an aircraft that is extremely unsafe to fly if a single sensor failure occurs. Sue Boeing.