Breaking news: Ethiopian Airlines flight has crashed on way to Nairobi

[BoeingBobby]

And as for the low hours thing, as an FO, this is essential viewing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q17vykscK0w

Skip to 16:50.

He talks about how 1500 hours in a Cessna doesn't prepare you to fly a commercial aircraft any more than 250 hours, because the CTPL and type-specific training, including procedure, is what matters here(that 'BANG!' was 3WE's head exploding once and for all).

He talks about how a pilot with 250 hours can be as proficient as a pilot with over 15000 hours (that other BANG! was BoeingBobby choking on his cigar).

I really like this guy.

Just the fact that he is making the video with his epaulettes on makes me chuckle. If he thinks 350 TT is qualifying to be in the right seat of a complex jet aircraft, I say rubbish

[Evan]

Just the fact that he is making the video with his epaulettes on makes me chuckle. If he thinks 350 TT is qualifying to be in the right seat of a complex jet aircraft, I say rubbish

Did he say that? I thought he said 3500 TT. I definitely agree with you if he said 350.

BTW: the epaulettes are part of his YouTube brand. I think he making some good second income here. He's got merch! Maybe you should consider this....

[BoeingBobby]

Did he say that? I thought he said 3500 TT. I definitely agree with you if he said 350.

The First Officer on the Ethiopian aircraft has been reported as having 350 hours Total Time.

[SmoothAir]

Well first of all, it could have been hit by a meteorite, so this might get into galactic liability law. Secondly, single sensors are expected to fail. Boeing built an aircraft that is extremely unsafe to fly if a single sensor failure occurs. Sue Boeing.

Or, it could be a part of a satellite orbital 'end of life' ? - or - a brownian motion producer - like a nice cup of tea ?
Who knows................................................ the infinite improbability.. ps, I think I dated Sue Boeing............. (Before 'bobby' advertised)

[3WE]

***including procedure, is what matters here(that 'BANG!' was 3WE's head exploding once and for all.***

Quote all the YouTubes you want, Evan. My head is not going to ultimately explode, nor have a mini-survivable explosion.

It doesn't change the fact that:

Basic 172 training (relentless pull ups are bad) would have saved Air France
Advanced 172 training Pitch + Power = performance) would have saved Air France
Basic 172 training (always watch airspeed) would have saved Asiana
Basic 172 training (relentless pull ups are bad) would have saved 2, 3, 4, 5...(Additional Gabriel citations)
Basic 172 training (a large number of other basic things) would have saved a large number of airliners with crews with intensive procedural training- who for some reason, ignored basic, scientific things that applied to their airliners.

PS Apologies to Gabriel- should I have said Tomahawk? Would it have changed anything?

[BoeingBobby]

Why Boeing decided to go with a single sensor input is beyond me let alone so unlike them.

[BoeingBobby]

Did he say that? I thought he said 3500 TT. I definitely agree with you if he said 350.

BTW: the epaulettes are part of his YouTube brand. I think he making some good second income here. He's got merch! Maybe you should consider this....

No thanks, this site and flying my 73 year old Cub is as much aviation as I want to do anymore. That and tow a few sailplanes.

[Evan]

The First Officer on the Ethiopian aircraft has been reported as having 350 hours Total Time.

Oh, sorry, you said right seat! I think he makes a good point. I think he knows what he's talking about. Assuming the flight schools are held to a high standard.

But left seat, at least a few thousand hours please.

[Evan]

Why Boeing decided to go with a single sensor input is beyond me let alone so unlike them.

You should read the Dutch final report for Turkish 1951. It's not really so unlike Boeing to do this.

[SmoothAir]

Oh, sorry, you said right seat! I think he makes a good point. I think he knows what he's talking about.

But left seat, at least a few thousand hours please.

absolutely agreed ! - he makes extremely valid points and is spot on regarding the dinosaurs with god complexes that he succinctly eludes to.

[Evan]

It doesn't change the fact that:

Basic 172 training (relentless pull ups are bad) would have saved Air France
Advanced 172 training Pitch + Power = performance) would have saved Air France
Basic 172 training (always watch airspeed) would have saved Asiana
Basic 172 training (relentless pull ups are bad) would have saved 2, 3, 4, 5...(Additional Gabriel citations)
Basic 172 training (a large number of other basic things) would have saved a large number of airliners with crews with intensive procedural training- who for some reason, ignored basic, scientific things that applied to their airliners.

Wrong (human factors).
Wrong (stealth factors).
Wrong (type-specific knowledge/cockpit culture).
Wrong (human factors/stealth factors).
Wrong (wrong).

I bet you a German pilsner in a gold-rimmed glass that every one of these pilots learned the basics on a single engine carbo-prop without automation before they ever got into the messes that did them in.

[Gabriel]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/878631...struck-object/. Okay Evan, do we sue the bird, the foreign object or is this on Boeing too?

It is on Boeing too, of course!!!

A failure of this single sensor triggers stick-shaker, IAS disagree, alt disagree, FD disagree, and nose-down trim runaway that, if the trim is disconnected as per procedure, may become impossible hard to move y hand and impossibly hard to keep the nose up with elevator.

Bird strike and FOD in general is reality in aviation an airplane design should be reasonable robust to it. This design is neither robust nor reasonable.

Could the pilots have done better? Hell, yes!!! But should Boeing have done better? Double hell yes!!!

[3WE]

Wrong

Words matter, Evan.

"Would have saved" (May or may not be an official contributing factor)

You saying wrong...is wrong.

I also bet that those pilots started in single engine aircraft.

The question is why did they forget that relentless pull ups are bad...that checking the airspeed during approach is critical?

I see your inability to mentally process and conceive such things as possible insight into how they were thinking.

Do I KNOW what they were thinking, no, but I see your general answer is "They needed more type-specific training"...so they don't pull up relentlessly in a 737-Min-Lav-826A (with leather yoke and carbon fiber arm rests, as opposed to the 825A)...Ok...fine.

[Evan]

No thanks, this site and flying my 73 year old Cub is as much aviation as I want to do anymore. That and tow a few sailplanes.

But you're not into gliding, yourself?

[BoeingBobby]

But you're not into gliding, yourself?

I am a commercial rated glider pilot as well. Still soar as often as I can. Soloed in a sailplane on my 14th birthday