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Breaking news: Ethiopian Airlines flight has crashed on way to Nairobi

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  • #76
    Originally posted by flashcrash View Post
    Article in Fortune Magazine confirmed: EASA suspends all 737 MAX operations in Europe:

    https://www.easa.europa.eu/newsroom-...rations-europe
    I have seen sources say now it is 40% at least of the MAX fleet worldwide with the addition of Australia,India,Malaysia,Singapore and Turkey. As well that it will take "weeks" for an update to be issue by Boeing so we are looking at probably at least 2 weeks these will be grounded. As economically devastating this is I think its good they are not saying it will be out in a day, this is not something to be rushed, it is something that they need to be sure they have fixed and take their time testing and double and triple checking that the changes have been properly implemented. I am sure there will be more countries and agencies following these as well.

    I hope for everyones sake that flies and pilots these birds what they say they are doing is really going to fix the problem for good. As bad as the problems the 787 was having with its batteries and overheating/fires this is obviously an even bigger blackeye for Boeing.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
      Not sure if the trim wheel makes any noise anymore Gabe. As of the 400 on the 74 it doesn't, can't even see a wheel anymore.
      The 737 MAX still has the classic 737 trim wheels with the white stripes, clacking noise, and t retractable crank lever.

      --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
      --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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      • #78
        Originally posted by KGEG View Post
        I have seen sources say now it is 40% at least of the MAX fleet worldwide with the addition of Australia,India,Malaysia,Singapore and Turkey. As well that it will take "weeks" for an update to be issue by Boeing so we are looking at probably at least 2 weeks these will be grounded. As economically devastating this is I think its good they are not saying it will be out in a day, this is not something to be rushed, it is something that they need to be sure they have fixed and take their time testing and double and triple checking that the changes have been properly implemented. I am sure there will be more countries and agencies following these as well.

        I hope for everyones sake that flies and pilots these birds what they say they are doing is really going to fix the problem for good. As bad as the problems the 787 was having with its batteries and overheating/fires this is obviously an even bigger blackeye for Boeing.
        You seem to be taking for a fact that this Ethiopian accident is connected to the Lion Air one

        --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
        --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
          You seem to be taking for a fact that this Ethiopian accident is connected to the Lion Air one
          If thats what it seems then Boeing themselves may even be taking it for a fact, Boeing are the ones saying they are working on a Software Update for the Max Series that is due to be released in the coming weeks. Boeing themselves are admitting there is a problem in the software. No matter if its related, its a problem. It needs to be fixed. Either way, Joe Smoe in Manitoba flying on Air Canada or Lee Wong in Guangzhou flying for China Southern. If it is related they fix the problem that has been there all along. Which I think would be better! Would it not be worst if this turns out to be a totally new problem and the Lion Air issue remains and is still a threat? I hope this is the same problem and they have pinpointed it.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by KGEG View Post
            If thats what it seems then Boeing themselves may even be taking it for a fact, Boeing are the ones saying they are working on a Software Update for the Max Series that is due to be released in the coming weeks. Boeing themselves are admitting there is a problem in the software. No matter if its related, its a problem. It needs to be fixed. Either way, Joe Smoe in Manitoba flying on Air Canada or Lee Wong in Guangzhou flying for China Southern. If it is related they fix the problem that has been there all along. Which I think would be better! Would it not be worst if this turns out to be a totally new problem and the Lion Air issue remains and is still a threat? I hope this is the same problem and they have pinpointed it.
            KGEG is right. The 737MAX should have been temporarily grounded in October and only recertified after the new system 'enhancements' were in place (which, I suspect, would have been done by now). Regardless of the cause of this accident.

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            • #81
              First post, and another killer tip at the accident, solved:

              Dont blame the 737Max
              No, both accidents are not related

              Ethiopian, pilot 8,000 hours, co-pilot just 200.
              Addi Abbaba is at 7,726 ft, the plane only climbed 600ft before problems started
              air pressure at this height is low, stall speeds are extremely high with a full loaded airplane.
              Some still unknown problem started less than one minute after take-off, problem most critically linked to the speed

              Pilot and Tower decide plane should return.
              A 180 turn around in a heavy plane at low barely V2 speed at 7,726 feet above sea level with a student pilot logging 200 hours ???????

              and you still looking at the plane model?
              suggesting it should be grounded?

              yeah like the Concorde right? good job wise guys

              In 1979 the DC10 was grounded after the turbine fall off, it was on live video. An obvious structural failure. FAA decided to ground it

              This time are the inexeperienced panic millenium generation plus the frenzi ignorant midia that grounded the plane with no specialized knowledge
              It should be grounded by an authority in the subject not "because everybody is panicing about the 737 Max"

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              • #82
                Originally posted by Kapitan View Post

                In 1979 the DC10 was grounded ... FAA decided to ground it. This time ... inexeperienced ... millenium generation ... frenzi ignorant midia ... no specialized knowledge ... should be grounded by an authority in the subject
                Probably just click-bate I know, but are you suggesting that EASA, CASA and the CAA don't have "authority in the subject"?

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by flashcrash View Post
                  Probably just click-bate I know, but are you suggesting that EASA, CASA and the CAA don't have "authority in the subject"?
                  By pressure of the midia.
                  What I am saying is that today pressure comes from below (public masses) forcing grounding cause all sorts of fears are spread in the media about the model.
                  (They cant just say: ok, nobody boards an ethiopian plane anymore cause their pilots are unrelaiable) until further notice

                  No, it would be politically incorrect wouldnt it? Its the 21st century, mouth shut, we are all equal, its nobody´s fault...must be the machine
                  even if we know by fact that 90% of accidents are human error

                  Have you seen photos of the two pilots, the experienced one is 28 years old, (probably most of it in Air Force flying over-powered jet fighters) the co-pilot also in his 20s with 200 hours..
                  If I were a passenger I would be praying.
                  Last edited by Kapitan; 2019-03-12, 23:02. Reason: more info

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Kapitan View Post
                    By pressure of the midia.
                    What I am saying is that today pressure comes from below (public masses) forcing grounding cause all sorts of fears are spread in the media about the model.
                    (They cant just say: ok, nobody boards an ethiopian plane anymore cause their pilots are unrelaiable) until further notice

                    No, it would be politically incorrect wouldnt it? Its the 21st century, mouth shut, we are all equal, its nobody´s fault...must be the machine
                    even if we know by fact that 90% of accidents are human error

                    Have you seen photos of the two pilots, the experienced one is 28 years old, (probably most of it in Air Force flying over-powered jet fighters) the co-pilot also in his 20s with 200 hours..
                    If I were a passenger I would be praying.
                    yeah, people like me are "from below." we are only the ones who's lives depend on the system working PROPERLY, without half-assed, dim-witted updates to antique designs, accomplished by pushing the envelope to an extreme and not properly designing the thing.

                    i'd rather not fly on an aircraft that CLEARLY has a problem.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Boeing Co. is making an extensive change to the flight-control system in the 737 MAX aircraft implicated in October’s Lion Air crash in Indonesia, going beyond what many industry officials familiar with the discussions had anticipated.

                      The change was in the works before a second plane of the same make crashed in Africa last weekend—and comes as world-wide unease about the 737 MAX’s safety grows.

                      The change would mark a major shift from how Boeing originally designed a stall-prevention feature in the aircraft, which were first delivered to airlines in 2017.

                      U.S. aviation regulators are expected to mandate the change by the end of April.

                      Boeing publicly released details about the planned 737 MAX software update on its website late Monday. A company spokesman confirmed the update would use multiple sensors, or data feeds, in MAX’s stall-prevention system—instead of the current reliance on a single sensor.

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by B757300 View Post
                        A company spokesman confirmed the update would use multiple sensors, or data feeds, in MAX’s stall-prevention system—instead of the current reliance on a single sensor.
                        Bravo. A true stroke of genius. I can't wait for the tell-all documentary on how this half-baked system ever got certification in the first place.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by flashcrash View Post
                          Probably just click-bate
                          Yes, bait.

                          I know, but...
                          You're going to take it anyway.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Evan View Post
                            KGEG is right. The 737MAX should have been temporarily grounded in October and only recertified after the new system 'enhancements' were in place (which, I suspect, would have been done by now). Regardless of the cause of this accident.
                            Evan, I don't quite agree. If the only issue highlighted by Lion Air was easily mitigated by better training, then I don't see why they should have grounded all the planes. If they knew there were other vulnerabilities in MCAS due to it's lack of sensor fault tolerance, in that case I agree but WE don't know that yet. An update to the software doesn't mean the plane should have been grounded. What it means is that they wanted to reduce their risk of vulnerability to proper training in that scenario, something that is probably fine for multiple months as long as the awareness is high.

                            The grounding/non-grounding of flights in different jurisdictions shows that there are a lot of unknowns and as a result are on the cusp of a decision without knowing enough. At that point, it is all about optics and in Europe, they will always lean against Boeing, and here in NA we will always give them the benefit of the doubt. Canada has no love loss for Boeing these days, but we've allowed them to keep flying no doubt because both national carriers have quite a few in their fleet.

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Schwartz View Post
                              \If the only issue highlighted by Lion Air was easily mitigated by better training, then I don't see why they should have grounded all the planes. And do what while the thousands of crew are trained? If they knew there were other vulnerabilities in MCAS due to it's lack of sensor fault tolerance, in that case I agree but WE don't know that yet. An update to the software doesn't mean the plane should have been grounded. It does if you don't have enough replacement planes What it means is that they wanted to reduce their risk of vulnerability to proper training in that scenario, something that is probably fine for multiple months as long as the awareness is high.

                              The grounding/non-grounding of flights in different jurisdictions shows that there are a lot of unknowns and as a result are on the cusp of a decision without knowing enough. No. it showns that some jurisdictions are being smart and proactive in protecting life over the almighty $$ At that point, it is all about optics and in Europe, they will always lean against Boeing, and here in NA we will always give them the benefit of the doubt. Canada has no love loss for Boeing these days, but we've allowed them to keep flying no doubt because both national carriers have quite a few in their fleet.
                              see comments in red

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                I have flown on the 737Max several times via Southwest Airlines and would not hesitate to fly it again.
                                SW and AA are big users of the 737Max; does anyone know the total number of take-offs by these 2 airlines, and if any problems were encountered in flight?

                                Update: Minutes after posting my questions this story popped up on my PC: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/pi...cid=spartandhp

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