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  • Originally posted by Evan View Post
    Essentially, this is the story of visionary management prevailing over whoring yourself out to wall street management. Aside from the modifications needed to make the 737-Max safe to operate, I hope these events to result in a purge of management culture at Boeing.
    fixed.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
      Boeing purchased a majority of the stakes in Embraer's commercial aviation, which includes the ERJ line.
      Definitely reactionary and it happened only after Airbus acquired the CSeries program. The E2 is great, but afaik the CSeries is more capable and with a lot more potential for future development, including TATL flights.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Black Ram View Post
        Definitely reactionary and it happened only after Airbus acquired the CSeries program. The E2 is great, but afaik the CSeries is more capable and with a lot more potential for future development, including TATL flights.
        On July 5, 2018, a joint venture with Boeing was announced for [Embraer's] airliners. This is seen as a reaction after Airbus acquired a majority of the competing Bombardier CSeries on October 16, 2017.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
          currently, the US government is seeking to ban the former VW boss from ever running or serving on the board of any US corp, for his involvement in the grand vw diesel lie, which killed NO ONE and merely hurt some folks' wallets (for which they are being compensated). my bet is, not a single head will roll at boeing or the faa, even though nearly 400 were killed in what can only be described as acts of reckless indifference to human life.
          Careful there. It is predicted that far more will die in my own city from the added pollution of dieselgate from VW and its dodgy competitors. Just not so spectacularly as those in air crashes. That's why VW diesels were not 'grounded' and won't be properly fixed and will continue to kill.

          The good news (if I dare use that phrase) is air crashes concentrate both the public and the aeronautical mind into getting faults diagnosed and fixed fast and grounding until they are. Boeing will never get away with what VW did.

          Comment


          • It will definitely be interesting to see how this plays out in the long run... Short-term, I am confident that Boeing will find an appropriate fix for the MAX's problem(s)...

            One thing that I have been wondering: The Lion Air accident happened on 29 October 2018, almost one-and-a-half years after the type entered airline service. How many similar incidents (without the deadly outcome) like that occurred during those 1.5 years?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Brainsys View Post
              Careful there. It is predicted that far more will die in my own city from the added pollution of dieselgate from VW and its dodgy competitors. Just not so spectacularly as those in air crashes. That's why VW diesels were not 'grounded' and won't be properly fixed and will continue to kill.

              The good news (if I dare use that phrase) is air crashes concentrate both the public and the aeronautical mind into getting faults diagnosed and fixed fast and grounding until they are. Boeing will never get away with what VW did.

              Ummmm, the dirtiest diesels are those of Fiat-Chrysler and Renault-Nissan. Diesels by Hyundai and Subaru are also very dirty, but less popular. The VW diesel scheme definitely won't kill anyone in the US. And as for Europe, those other brands I mention are dirtier (like, a lot) and have always been dirtier. VW on the other hand paid some 30 billion total in the US and has the cleanest Euro 6 diesels in Europe.

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              • Google translate of a fragment of an article in an Argentinian newspaper:

                The analysis of the black boxes of the Boeing 737 MAX 8 that crashed last week east of Addis Ababa with 157 people on board, shows "clear similarities" with the crash in October of a similar aircraft of the airline Lion Air, reported on Sunday the Ethiopian Transport Minister, Dagmawit Moges.

                "In the investigation into the parameter recorder (FDR - Flight data recorder), clear similarities were noted between flight 302 of Ethiopian Airlines and flight 610 of Lion Air," she said at a press conference.


                The article says it was written with information from AFP.

                EDIT: This info is now in AvHerald too.

                --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                  Google translate of a fragment of an article in an Argentinian newspaper:



                  https://www.infobae.com/america/mund...-de-indonesia/
                  I see two things in particular that seem to point to a repeat of the Lion Air MCAS malfunction:

                  1) The first upset event happens at what should be the point of flap retraction.

                  2) The initial shallow flight path and speed increase seem consistent with a pilot reducing column force in reacting to a stickshaker activation at rotation and thus accelerating with takeoff thrust near the ground (especially if distracted from paying close attention to airspeed).

                  Comment


                  • So, what used to be “If it ain’t a Boeing I ain’t going” will now become “If it’s a Boeing, I ain’t going”. !!!!

                    At least it still rhymes
                    If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Black Ram View Post
                      The VW diesel scheme definitely won't kill anyone in the US.
                      Really and relevant? The MAX didn't kill anybody in the US but it is still grounded for killing 400 elsewhere. Small beer when around 5000 per annum are dying prematurely through dieselgate: https://www.europeandatajournalism.e...kills-the-most

                      No diesels were grounded anywhere for flouting and continuing to flout emission regs. Perhaps proof that VW and others can out-lobby Boeing?

                      [Sorry for going off-topic but its a sensitive subject where I live. I'll leave it there]

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                      • To say the masterminds of the VW scandal should be allowed to keep high positions and treated like nothing happened is an egregious thing to say. I am not saying its contributing more to deaths or not, but when you go to such pains not to get discovered you know you are doing something wrong. Designing a computer chip that detects when an emissions test is being done and altering the way the engine is running just for that test. But maybe capitalism is all about who bends the rules and cheats the best? Thats the message I would be getting if you allowed the VW cheaters to run any other company of substantial size. Sure let them run a small chain of Dunkin Donuts. But don't let them be a senior officer of a Fortune 500 company anymore for sure.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Brainsys View Post
                          Really and relevant? The MAX didn't kill anybody in the US but it is still grounded for killing 400 elsewhere. Small beer when around 5000 per annum are dying prematurely through dieselgate: https://www.europeandatajournalism.e...kills-the-most

                          No diesels were grounded anywhere for flouting and continuing to flout emission regs. Perhaps proof that VW and others can out-lobby Boeing?

                          [Sorry for going off-topic but its a sensitive subject where I live. I'll leave it there]

                          I understand your concerns, however I hate such sensationalist studies. Ok, you could argue NOx from diesel cars will cause health problems and even death in densely populated cities. But do you honestly think anyone has found a way to measure what part of that NOx is from VW cars and what part of it is from the rest of the diesel cars? They always do this cheap trick, and I don't understand how people fall for it - they mention dieselgate (which honestly has relevance only in the US, because only the US bans defeat devices by law, and VW had the stupidity to sell such cars in the US), and then they talk about the total NOx in European cities, so in effect the reader is manipulated to associate total NOx with VW.

                          You can look at some diesel emissions studies:

                          https://www.express.co.uk/life-style...ution-vehicles

                          https://www.autoevolution.com/news/s...pe-111352.html

                          https://www.theicct.org/news/road-te...-press-release
                          (nice charts at the bottom)

                          So I hope this will prove to you the problem is much bigger than VW. Yes, the diesel lobby is pretty strong in Europe - it was decided decades ago that diesel will be the way to lower CO2 emissions - but the diesel lobby is not VW. As you probably know, diesel cars are most popular in France, Spain and Italy (% of total cars). As of Sept 2015, the French manufacturers (PSA, Renault-Nissan) were most dependent on diesel cars (2/3 of total sales). Renault-Nissan has been spewing Euro4 levels of NOx and other pollutants for many, many years, but there is no investigation, and there are no fines. Eventually the Japanese got Carlos Gohn for something completely different. But everyone talks only about VW.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by KGEG View Post
                            To say the masterminds of the VW scandal should be allowed to keep high positions and treated like nothing happened is an egregious thing to say. I am not saying its contributing more to deaths or not, but when you go to such pains not to get discovered you know you are doing something wrong. Designing a computer chip that detects when an emissions test is being done and altering the way the engine is running just for that test. But maybe capitalism is all about who bends the rules and cheats the best? Thats the message I would be getting if you allowed the VW cheaters to run any other company of substantial size. Sure let them run a small chain of Dunkin Donuts. But don't let them be a senior officer of a Fortune 500 company anymore for sure.
                            It's not that they should be allowed to get away with it, or that capitalism should be about who cheats the best. VW paid a very hefty price. If their ex-CEO is personally involved in the scheme, he should be prosecuted, let alone kept from becoming a CEO again (though I'm pretty sure he retired with a very nice pension and this whole thing is a bit unnecessary). The point is there are car manufacturers that have been far more polluting and no one does anything. In fact, they still are more polluting - some have not made any improvements, while others have cut down their NOx massively.
                            And then there's the GM cheap spring in the starter story that killed some 100 people (with names and all), and that cost the company less than 1 billion.

                            Comment


                            • Boeing needs to be saved from itself

                              Originally posted by Black Ram View Post
                              Thanks for the link. Scary reading.

                              Apparently Seattle Times was working on this story before the Ethiopian crash.

                              From The Seattle Times:

                              "Delegated to Boeing

                              The FAA, citing lack of funding and resources, has over the years delegated increasing authority to Boeing to take on more of the work of certifying the safety of its own airplanes.

                              Early on in certification of the 737 MAX, the FAA safety engineering team divided up the technical assessments that would be delegated to Boeing versus those they considered more critical and would be retained within the FAA.

                              But several FAA technical experts said in interviews that as certification proceeded, managers prodded them to speed the process. Development of the MAX was lagging nine months behind the rival Airbus A320neo. Time was of the essence for Boeing.

                              A former FAA safety engineer who was directly involved in certifying the MAX said that halfway through the certification process, “we were asked by management to re-evaluate what would be delegated. Management thought we had retained too much at the FAA.”

                              “There was constant pressure to re-evaluate our initial decisions,” the former engineer said. “And even after we had reassessed it … there was continued discussion by management about delegating even more items down to the Boeing Company.”

                              Even the work that was retained, such as reviewing technical documents provided by Boeing, was sometimes curtailed.

                              “There wasn’t a complete and proper review of the documents,” the former engineer added. “Review was rushed to reach certain certification dates.”

                              When time was too short for FAA technical staff to complete a review, sometimes managers either signed off on the documents themselves or delegated their review back to Boeing"
                              Clearly Boeing needs a regulator to save it from them itself. Sadly Boeing have been lobbying to pull all teeth out of the FAA and now they have a rubber-stamp FAA. The FAA should never approve anything just because Boeing is behind schedule.

                              Sometimes I don't understand America. It is as if American business and politicians are living in a bubble and don't understand or are blind to the fact that lousy decisions regarding government oversight will not go down well with the rest of the world.

                              Boeing is dependent on international business but it is as if they believe a "Made in America"-sticker is a universal sign of quality. Where I live it is usually a sign that you better check that every screw and plastic part is properly fastened.

                              Just a matter of time before the worlds other aviation safety authorities will want a more direct oversight over Boeing. If the U.S. can't or won't perform proper oversight, certification and supervision someone else will have to do so, that is bad for business and Boeing is in the business of business.

                              A couple of plane crashes won't bring down Boeing. Erosion of trust will.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by HansPeter View Post
                                A couple of plane crashes won't bring down Boeing. Erosion of trust will.
                                Indeed. That's how it went down with now-defunct VW.

                                Oh, wait, I meant record 2018 sales VW.

                                People don't really care as long as the powers that be keep them happy and entertained. They tell them regulation will take all that away, so people decry regulation. Like socialism, somehow it's become a threat.

                                Boeing might face a congressional hearing. They might have to issue a mea culpa and do some very public soul-searching via an expensive public-relations campaign.

                                They might end up like now-defunct Facebook.

                                Oh wait, I mean...

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