B-52, F-117 added to the chopping block

[YYZPICS]

"The Defense Department plans to accelerate retirement of key Air Force aircraft, including nearly half the B-52 bomber force and the full U-2 spy plane and F-117 stealth fighter fleets, in a bid to save $2.6 billion and boost spending for the services' prized F-22A fighter aircraft program"

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Whats your thoughts?

[Chris@YYZ]

Why get rid of the F117?

[Top_Gun]

I know, seems still way to early to start removing the F-117. I can see the U-2, and even downsizing the Buffs, but not the Woblin Gobblin

[DAL767-400ER]

So, they want to get rid of the plane that has been their most usefull weapon in every war the US has been in in over 2 decades? Brilliant, just brilliant.

[uy707]

U2s
For : excellent manned reco aircraft
Against : new stage UAV can do most of the job. Another bia : it can be vulnerable.
Verdict : should keep them anyway. Robots won't never replace mankind especially on delicate missions
B52s
For : like the U2s, also an old bird which has made her proofs and still does by faring better than the much newer B1 Lancer.
Against : terrible fuel burner, terrible incured operational costs starting with maintenance
Verdict : Re-engine the survivors
F.117
For : nothing
Against : Everything
Verdict : It's ugly, it's slow, it can be detected and when so, it can be downed. Should be the first to go to allow some time in pondering to how to find a new job for the Buffs and U2s.
Alain

[Chris@YYZ]

I know, seems still way to early to start removing the F-117. I can see the U-2, and even downsizing the Buffs, but not the Woblin Gobblin

Woblin' Gobblin' sounds cool

[YYZPICS]

Well the Woblin Gobblin has been around for 25 years now

[Star Alliance]

F.117
For : nothing
Against : Everything
Verdict : It's ugly, it's slow, it can be detected and when so, it can be downed. Should be the first to go to allow some time in pondering to how to find a new job for the Buffs and U2s.
Alain

I don't think the USAF and US Government take looks into consideration . But all the ugliness in the F-117 is for a reason.
On another note, the breakup of B-52's isn't any new thing. I remember seeing a mid 90's cover story in Air+Space about the destruction of the BUFFs.

[uy707]

^The B52s which were axed in the 90's are early A to F(I guess) models, which would have cost probably too much to be retrofitted and set to G & H standards. Recently NASA took up a H to replace an early D or E.
Alain

[YYZPICS]

^The B52s which were axed in the 90's are early A to F(I guess) models, which would have cost probably too much to be retrofitted and set to G & H standards. Recently NASA took up a H to replace an early D or E.
Alain

The B52 has done an awsome job in its role, but i guess everything will have to come to an end. The B1B can carry a bigger payload and is alot faster then the BUFF. So time for the lancer to take number 1 spot.

[DAL767-400ER]

The B52 has done an awsome job in its role, but i guess everything will have to come to an end.

To true, especially at an average age of 44 years.

So time for the lancer to take number 1 spot.

About time, considering that many of the B1Bs are already 20+ years old as well.

[uy707]

On the other hand with proper maintenance and regular updates, they can be kept in air for very long, since they fly much less than an airliner. Recently I read a 46 year old Mirage III still in use at Cazeaux AFB until retirement days ago just boasts 1,800 hours or so in the clock ...
As for the B1B superceeding Buff, I rather figure the Lancer to be kept on line alongside as she has been still looking taking over since the first ...... blueprints.
Alain

[Irfan]

The F-117A sucks, why it has a "F" designation? It is NOT a fighter it is a ground atack aircraft. It's slow not as menuvereble as other fighters (even some ground atack aircraft handles like a fighter). Easy targets for fighter jets with a powerfull radar. Poor self-defence. Even the A-7 has AIM-9 Sidewinders for self-defence. Herd of the F-117A shot down over Serbia? They use old long-waveline radars. And the one that is damaged but managed to land?

[DAL767-400ER]

The F-117A sucks, why it has a "F" designation?

I take it from that you work for the USAF?

It is NOT a fighter it is a ground atack aircraft. It's slow not as menuvereble as other fighters (even some ground atack aircraft handles like a fighter).

So you also know exactly how the F-117 compares against other planes, I'm impressed. And obviously, going only Mach 1 means it is terribly slow.

Easy targets for fighter jets with a powerfull radar.

Yeah, all those Serbian and Iraqi fighters sure had powerful radars, wow. Not to mention the whole stealth thing must be totally useless, too.

Poor self-defence. Even the A-7 has AIM-9 Sidewinders for self-defence.

Yeah, I believe the lack of self-defence is the exact reason why the US has so heavily relied on the F-117s.

Herd of the F-117A shot down over Serbia?

I only heard of a F-117 shot down, didn't know that a whole herd was shot down, wow, thanks for the news.

[seahawk]

Hm, replacing the F-117 makes sense. TheF-22A is said to have a comparable low RCS and with the SDB it is also able to carry a meaningfull payload even better then the 2 bombs a F-117 can carry. In addition the F-22 is faster and is clearly able to dfend itself against enemy fighters.
On the other hand the US still has not many Stealth assets and the F-117 are still not that old.

Replacing the U-2 with an UAV. Yes, the U-2 canīt overfly any meaningfull air defensese any more and just loitering behind the FOB is something an UAV can do better. Especially as the U-2 is practically a UAV, when it comes to data processing.

Replacing the BUFF. No way, you need a wing of F-22 to carry the same bombload as a B-52 flight. In a low to medium threat enviroment there is nothing for BAI like a B-52 flight. Especially as some B-52 are being converted to EB-52 standard, giving them a niche stand-off jamming capability as well.
The B1 costs as much to maintain, has a even worse service ability rate, has still some bugs and carries less payload over less range. If a bomber is to go, then it is the B1.