Soyuz Lands Off Course - 420 kms or so

[FireLight]

It seems that they are all safe, which is a good thing. There was a grass fire started around the capsule when it landed. (From the re-entry heat of the capsule?)

This seems to happen when the capsult has a "ballistic landing", although landing steeper doesn't necessarily seem consistent with an "overshoot".

KAZAKH STEPPE — A Russian space capsule landed about 420 kilometres off course in Kazakhstan on Saturday but South Korea's first astronaut and the other two crew were safe.

The Soyuz capsule landed west of the target area and about 20 minutes late after it made a "ballistic landing", which is much steeper than normal, officials said. Rescue helicopters rushed to the scene.

"The capsule landed with an overshoot. Such things happen," said mission control spokesman Valery Lyndin.

He said the crew had begun leaving the capsule, which carried Yi So-yeon, a 29-year old nanotechnology engineer from Seoul, U.S. commander Peggy Whitson and Russian flight engineer Yuri Malenchenko.

A Reuters photographer, who went to the landing site in a helicopter with rescue crews, saw plumes of smoke rising from the capsule, which was lying on its side embedded about 30 centimetres into the ground with its parachute burning. More here: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...y/Science/home

[Dmmoore]

The fire was very likely started by the landing breaking rockets. They fire just prior to touchdown.

[FireLight]

The fire was very likely started by the landing breaking rockets. They fire just prior to touchdown.

Thanks Don - I didn't know that.

As an update, apparently the crew of the Soyuz faced up to 10 G's during re-entry. That would have been pretty severe given that 9 G's is the typical maximum loading that trained fighter pilots in G-suits are expected to be capable of dealing with. If it was a sustained force they also would have lost/been close to losing consciousness.

Mission Control spokesman Valery Lyndin said the condition of the crew - South Korean bio-engineer Yi So-yeon, American astronaut Peggy Whitson and Russian flight engineer Yuri Malenchenko - was satisfactory, though the three had been subjected to severe G-forces during the re-entry.

The Russian TMA-11 craft touched down around 0830 GMT some 260 miles off-target, Lyndin said - a highly unusual distance given how precisely engineers plan for such landings.

It was also around 20 minutes later than scheduled.

Officials said the craft followed a so-called "ballistic re-entry" - a very steep trajectory that subjects the crew to extreme physical force. Lyndin said the crew had experienced gravitational forces up to 10 times those on Earth during the descent. More here: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...n4029116.shtml

Apparently, according to the Russians, the problem was "too many females on board."

Christopher Scolese of NASA, described the crew as "super" and said they had accomplished great things in space that demonstrated true international cooperation, adding Japanese and European modules to the International Space Station.

Asked about the presence of two women on the Soyuz spacecraft, Preminov referred to a naval superstition that having women aboard a ship was bad luck.

"In Russia, we have a sort of omen regarding such occasions," he said, "but thank God, everything ended well. Certainly we will try to somehow avoid a prevalence of females on a crew, though I don't think it will be mandatory."

It is the second landing in a row of a Soyuz capsule that has gone awry.

Last October, a technical glitch sent a Soyuz spacecraft carrying Malaysia's first space traveler and two Russian cosmonauts on a steeper-than-normal path during their return to Earth.

[Vinco]

Thanks Don - I didn't know that.

As an update, apparently the crew of the Soyuz faced up to 10 G's during re-entry. That would have been pretty severe given that 9 G's is the typical maximum loading that trained fighter pilots in G-suits are expected to be capable of dealing with. If it was a sustained force they also would have lost/been close to losing consciousness...

I would guess the "landing" is accomplished automatically therefore unconsciosness of the crew is not as big of a factor as in a single seat fighter.

...
Apparently, according to the Russians, the problem was "too many females on board."

This is similar to oldtimers in the states saying "it's called cockpit for a reason".

[kukkudrill]

As an update, apparently the crew of the Soyuz faced up to 10 G's during re-entry. That would have been pretty severe given that 9 G's is the typical maximum loading that trained fighter pilots in G-suits are expected to be capable of dealing with. If it was a sustained force they also would have lost/been close to losing consciousness.

I assume the g-force was due to deceleration on re-entry. Assuming also that the crew had their backs to the direction of travel, wouldn't this have mitigated the effect? Dunno, just speculating.

Also, does anyone know what would have led the crew to opt for a ballistic re-entry?

[FireLight]

I assume the g-force was due to deceleration on re-entry. Assuming also that the crew had their backs to the direction of travel, wouldn't this have mitigated the effect? Dunno, just speculating.

That makes a lot of sense. Pilots lose consciousness as the blood flows away from their brains. If they are seated with their backs facing the direction of travel, it would result in an increase in forces and duration they could withstand before they would lose consciousness.

Also, does anyone know what would have led the crew to opt for a ballistic re-entry?

According to this article, the problem was likely a failure of the autopilot. It also sounds like there are a number of other potential problems with the construction of the spacecraft. Not to mention that Mission Control lost contact with the spacecraft, didn't know where it was, and it was some time before they could determine that everyone was safely on the ground.

These latest troubles do not rise to the level of threatening future Soyuz launches. The twice-normal deceleration forces (peaking briefly at nine G’s, or the equivalent of nine times the force of Earth's normal gravity) were an added burden for Malenchenko and NASA astronaut Peggy Whitson, who had spent the previous six months in orbit — but they had been fully trained in the emergency landing experience.

The short-term visitor on board the Soyuz, Korean astronaut Yi So-yeon, also avoided injury, although she was shaken up. "I pretended to be OK," she told reporters Monday.

The hard landing likely was the result of a failure in the Soyuz craft's autopilot, which uses thrusters to keep the descent on a smooth course. When the autopilot fails, the craft goes into a stable, constant roll — without the usual aerodynamic "lift." As a result, it lands far short of the original aim point after a much more severe air braking phase.

Why didn't ground controllers know that the vehicle had switched from a gentler "guided descent" to a steeper "ballistic descent"? Russian space agency chief Anatoly Perminov blamed the crew for not reporting in by radio, but this accusation ignored the existence of radio beacons on the Soyuz, as well as tracking by ground-based radar. Those systems all apparently failed. More here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24243569/

[Airbus_A320]

In Soviet Russia, spaceship flies YOU!

[kukkudrill]

Interesting information, thanks.

[JSchraub]

Did the Russians replace drinking vodka with smoking doobies?

[Highkeas]

Today's news is that the service module did not separate properly and the intial casule orientation was hatch first before it later reoriented itself. Having the service module attached would increase both drag and weight so it would certainly modify the ballistic trajectory (unless W/CdA remained the same).

The Soyuz (and Apollo, Mercury & Gemini) flights follow a balistic trajectory with very little lift (the Shuttle follows a lifting ballistic trajectory). They have offset CP to the CG so that a little trajectory modification is possible by rolling the capsule.

Effects of decelleration on a human vary by duration - according to my ejection seat info an astronaut in his couch can withstand 10 g for 60 seconds or 28 g for 1.2 seconds.

[FireLight]

Re-Entry on "Razor's Edge"

Today's news is that the service module did not separate properly and the intial casule orientation was hatch first before it later reoriented itself. Having the service module attached would increase both drag and weight so it would certainly modify the ballistic trajectory (unless W/CdA remained the same).

The Soyuz (and Apollo, Mercury & Gemini) flights follow a balistic trajectory with very little lift (the Shuttle follows a lifting ballistic trajectory). They have offset CP to the CG so that a little trajectory modification is possible by rolling the capsule.

Effects of decelleration on a human vary by duration - according to my ejection seat info an astronaut in his couch can withstand 10 g for 60 seconds or 28 g for 1.2 seconds. Thanks for this note Highkeas.

It sounds like the danger was much more extreme than first reported. They say the flight was on a "razor's edge". I'd agree, given that for part of the re-entry the spacecraft was heading down hatch first, rather than heatshield first.

Three astronauts were lucky to survive a dangerous re-entry into the Earth's atmosphere last week, a Russian news agency reported Tuesday, citing a source close to an investigation into the incident.

"The fact that the crew members remained unharmed, in one piece, was very lucky. Everything could have ended much worse," the source was quoted as saying by the Interfax news agency. Their fate was "on a razor's edge," he said. More here: http://www.spacedaily.com/2006/08042....xzc26tsb.html

NASA say's "well, it wasn't too bad really."

WASHINGTON - NASA isn't too worried about the Soyuz space capsule's wayward ride home over the weekend, saying Tuesday that the Russians have got a handle on it.

This was the second straight off-course landing for a Soyuz capsule returning from the international space station. A Russian space official told the Russian news agency Interfax that the crew of three — including American Peggy Whitson — was in serious danger during the descent.

But NASA associate administrator for space operations William H. Gerstenmaier downplayed such alarm. NASA wasn't aware of any danger for the crew although it didn't ask if the crew was at risk, Gerstenmaier said in a Tuesday news teleconference. More here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24258975/

And finally, some questions about the quality control here:

Saturday's safe return of the latest international space station crew occurred during an anxiety-filled half-hour of official silence that only later was explained by the cluelessness of Moscow Mission Control as to the whereabouts (and even the continued existence) of the Soyuz spacecraft and its three occupants.

Although the crew members survived and were well enough to recount their ordeal on Monday, the landing raises huge questions about the Russian space effort's competence going forward.

How on earth did the Russians lose track of the descending spacecraft? Why did alarming details of the landing — including the ignition of a brush fire that set the collapsed parachute ablaze and filled the landed spacecraft with smoke — take so long to reach the public?

Most importantly for the future, what does this emergency landing — the second in a row — say about quality control on the Soyuz production line, which has now been accelerated to double its former production rate? More here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24243569/

[HalcyonDays]

I guess NASA have to play down the incident to a large extent since the US will be dependent on Soyuz for American access to space for several years (at least 5) following the retirement of the Shuttle program in 2010. I don't think the American people have quite realized this remarkable development yet (assuming anyone cares, that is).

[Peter_K]

Effects of decelleration on a human vary by duration - according to my ejection seat info an astronaut in his couch can withstand 10 g for 60 seconds or 28 g for 1.2 seconds.

This obviously does not apply to Soviet cosmonauts

On April 5, 1975, two cosmonauts were dumped onto the Altai Mountains in the world's first manned space launch abort. Pilot Vasily Lazarev and flight engineer Oleg Makarov survived a harrowing 20 G descent and then a bouncing ride down a mountainside before their spacecraft came to a safe stop. They came as close to dying as anyone can and later talk about it.