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  • Soviet 5th gen fighter

    The Sukhoi PAK FA 5th gen jet fighter took flight for the first time.

    http://www.flightglobal.com/articles.../pictures.html

    video of the first flight

    Robin Guess Aviation Historian, Photographer, Web Designer.

    http://www.Jet-Fighters.Net
    http://www.Jet-Liners.Net

  • #2
    Now that is one great looking aircraft imo!
    “The only time you have too much fuel is when you’re on fire.”

    Erwin

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    • #3
      Looks like an SU nose mated to a copy of the F22 body.

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      • #4
        Looks good, you can definitly see similar things resembling the F-22/35 fighters. It's like an F-22/SU-35 hybrid. The tails are bit small though. Whatever happen to the SU-37 Berkut, I thought that was their next fighter.

        ap news report link
        http://news.yahoo.com/video/world-15749633/17874356
        Last edited by Eric Diffoot; 2010-01-29, 21:50. Reason: adding to opinion
        what ever happens......happens

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        • #5
          Looks really cool! But it appears most military minds aren't very impressed. Apparently the engines are nothing special and the radar systems are second tier. As I understand it, most military people are saying this aircraft is kind of like a diet, caffeine free, non-carbonated attempt at a version of the F22. Anyone know if there's any truth to this? As far as aesthetics go, its a beautiful aircraft.

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          • #6
            the berkut was just a testing platform, a study as i understand. I remember reading some time ago, that soon after the prototype flew they discarded the whole project do to financial trouble and redeclared it as a testbed to test new avionic systems and aerodynamics but officially announced that it wouldn't go into production.

            this new planr does indeed look like a SU mated with a F-22. I highly doubt though that it is stealth; low radar profile ok maybe but not stealth...look at the air intakes, nearly 90 degree angles which make for a good radar reflection.

            and the engines...looks like they just took some off the shelf engines, i mean no heat dispersion which makes it easily detectable with IR, not to mention that this makes it a pretty easy target for heat seeking missiles. on the positive side it probably supports 3D vector thrust, which the F-22 does not have so far i know.

            What do the experts think about this new bird? what's the maneuverability like? what do you think about the engines? hows the stealth capability?

            would appreciate any opinions

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Ferlo View Post
              the berkut was just a testing platform, a study as i understand. I remember reading some time ago, that soon after the prototype flew they discarded the whole project do to financial trouble and redeclared it as a testbed to test new avionic systems and aerodynamics but officially announced that it wouldn't go into production.

              this new planr does indeed look like a SU mated with a F-22. I highly doubt though that it is stealth; low radar profile ok maybe but not stealth...look at the air intakes, nearly 90 degree angles which make for a good radar reflection.

              and the engines...looks like they just took some off the shelf engines, i mean no heat dispersion which makes it easily detectable with IR, not to mention that this makes it a pretty easy target for heat seeking missiles. on the positive side it probably supports 3D vector trust, which the F-22 does not have so far i know.

              What do the experts think about this new bird? what's the maneuverability like? what do you think about the engines? hows the stealth capability?

              would appreciate any opinions
              I don't think the pilot had much to say. I think it was along the lines of "it was very easy and comfortable to fly." Of course that's from an American website so the russian ones would in all likelihood have more. I know the military people (US) they talked to about it said it wasn't anything special. Supposedly Saturn engines that were more or less of the shelf and they didn't sound too impressed with the in the cockpit stuff either. BUt that's just hearsay. I saw the article of yahoo IIRC.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Ferlo View Post
                the berkut was just a testing platform, a study as i understand. I remember reading some time ago, that soon after the prototype flew they discarded the whole project do to financial trouble and redeclared it as a testbed to test new avionic systems and aerodynamics but officially announced that it wouldn't go into production.

                this new planr does indeed look like a SU mated with a F-22. I highly doubt though that it is stealth; low radar profile ok maybe but not stealth...look at the air intakes, nearly 90 degree angles which make for a good radar reflection.

                and the engines...looks like they just took some off the shelf engines, i mean no heat dispersion which makes it easily detectable with IR, not to mention that this makes it a pretty easy target for heat seeking missiles. on the positive side it probably supports 3D vector thrust, which the F-22 does not have so far i know.

                What do the experts think about this new bird? what's the maneuverability like? what do you think about the engines? hows the stealth capability?

                would appreciate any opinions
                I'd say the very few people who are qualified to comment on shaping would not be authorised to give their views. LO technology is more that just the shaping - it's also about the materials.

                Ferlo, how do you disperse heat from a couple of lowbypass turbofans with afterburners? Nobody has worked out how to do that beyond shaping an aircraft like the B2 where the exhausts exit on top of the wing (using that to obscure the most obvious thermal signature). Easier to do on a large subsonic airframe, damn near impossible on a supercruising multirole aircraft - particularly one with thrust vectoring.

                What do we think about the engines? The only definitive thing that can be said is they produce enough thrust to get the aircraft into the air, and don't smoke like a J57.

                The few reports I have seen is that yes, perhaps the T50 will be more LO than the gen 4 and 4.5 aircraft (F-teen series, Eurofighter, Grippen etc) but maybe not as mickey duck as the F-22. Of course all of this is speculation.

                What is not speculation is that the Soviets will tell the world that this aircraft is an F22 killer - far superior in fact. What is also fact is that soviet aircraft fanbois will beat their chest, F-22 fanbois will beat their chests and the whole pissing contest will continue until everyone is throughly bored...

                I'm more interested in what the Chinese come up with as I think there will be more of them produced.

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                • #9
                  The one thing to realize with the T-50 is even if it does not have the superiority of the F-22 the soviets will build them in much higher numbers that the US did for the Raptor. On top of that the US does not want to export the Raptor. The soviets will sell the T-50 to any country that has the cash to buy one. Kinda hard to have air dominance when you are severely out numbered by the opposition.
                  Robin Guess Aviation Historian, Photographer, Web Designer.

                  http://www.Jet-Fighters.Net
                  http://www.Jet-Liners.Net

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jet-fighters.Net View Post
                    The one thing to realize with the T-50 is even if it does not have the superiority of the F-22 the soviets will build them in much higher numbers that the US did for the Raptor. On top of that the US does not want to export the Raptor. The soviets will sell the T-50 to any country that has the cash to buy one. Kinda hard to have air dominance when you are severely out numbered by the opposition.
                    Not the case since the end of the cold war. The Russians have produced far fewer newbuild airframes than the US for example. There have been some limited upgrades and remanufactures, but in terms of Russians doing what they did during the communist era - nup Money is still in short supply - and as everything has been left to rot or rust for the last decade it will take a while to turn around.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Jet-fighters.Net View Post
                      The one thing to realize with the T-50 is even if it does not have the superiority of the F-22 the soviets will build them in much higher numbers that the US did for the Raptor. On top of that the US does not want to export the Raptor. The soviets will sell the T-50 to any country that has the cash to buy one. Kinda hard to have air dominance when you are severely out numbered by the opposition.
                      Just read somewhere that the Ruskis are really starting to crank up production in the past year or two, so right at the moment, they have ordered: 172 (32 Su-34, 48 Su-35S, 12 Su-27SM (new-builds, or rather completion of Soviet-era airframes in storage at KnAAPO), 4 Su-30M2, and 64 Yak-130) new aircraft by ~2015.

                      Of course that will pale by comparison to the figures due to be built on the F-35 line but they are on the way back when it comes to production.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by TX911 View Post
                        I don't think the pilot had much to say. I think it was along the lines of "it was very easy and comfortable to fly." Of course that's from an American website so the russian ones would in all likelihood have more. I know the military people (US) they talked to about it said it wasn't anything special. Supposedly Saturn engines that were more or less of the shelf and they didn't sound too impressed with the in the cockpit stuff either. BUt that's just hearsay. I saw the article of yahoo IIRC.
                        US Military is seldom impressed with anyone other than themselves so no surprises there. The Engines are not the ones that will be used on the final platform anyway.

                        Got no idea what's in the cockpit (and the US military probably doesn't either). The weapons systems are also not finalised. Could be 10 years before we know whether this aircraft is going anywhere but it has the potential to take the Russian Airforce a couple of steps up the food chain as it should eventually be more capable than F15/16's, Gripens, Tornados & Eurofighters.

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                        • #13
                          USSR went bankrupt 18 years ago, more like the Russian latest fighter.
                          "The real CEO of the 787 project is named Potemkin"

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Alessandro View Post
                            USSR went bankrupt 18 years ago, more like the Russian latest fighter.
                            I'm glad someone finally said it. The Soviets are long-buried. As is the independence of Sukhoi, Yak, Tupolev and the ilk. One company now.


                            Foundation Course in Aviation Engineering on-going; Stage One of the journey to professional engineer!

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                            • #15
                              It has to be said, "Raptorski."

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