Soviet 5th gen fighter

[SYDCBRWOD]

Oh yea of too much faith...Don't beleive everything you read. I can't argue with much of what you have written, i don't have the data in front of me...i wouldn'r beleive much of it anyway.

So even with facts you wouldn't believe it eh? Well, I guess there is no point debating this is there? Tell you what, just to keep you happy, you are totally correct - all Russian designs are crap. There we go - no point arguing with the blind.

The Russians from year dot have ALWAYS copied and over-stated their aircrafts abilities.

Evidence? Facts?

Their entire country is built around importing ideas and making cheaper repros of them.

So the S300 and S400 Anti aircraft weaponry has been copied eh? From where? It's widely acknowleged as being a very serious threat - obviously as all russian gear is crap they must have copied from somewhere - where was that? How about the Russian Alpha class subs. Show me any navy anywhere making titanium hulled submarines. How about the Brahmos Antiship missile (co-developed with India) exactly which Mach 3 supersonic 'allied' antiship missile have they copied? The AK-47 was a unique drsign, often copied due to the excellence and robustness of its design. It was arguably a better weapon than the M16A1. The Tu-124 was the world's first turbofan jetliner - if it was the first who the hell copied whom?

The accusation you make is often levelled at other countries (China for instance) - not Russia.

They simply don't have the pedigree or funds to do ANYTHING like Skunworks or others can do.

Seriously? Tupolev founded 1922. Mig founded 1939. Yakolev 1934. Sukhoi 1939. Ilyushin 1933. Yes both Lockheed 1912 and Boeing 1916 have more total years, but I'd hardly call 71 years a lack of pedigree. And before that Igor Sikorsky had aircraft in the air in his native Russia including the worlds first multi engined design in 1913.

Funds, yes you are totally correct (the first time in a number of posts) the Russian aviation sector has for the past two decades been chronically underfunded - but in the same manner that had the US space program pay a million dollars to design a pen that would work in space - the soviets just used a pencil - same result.

One question: How many of these OBVIOUS rip offs have come out BEFORE the Allied version? Hmmm?

Don't be LAZY - do your own research. Besides you haven't indicated which aircraft each design is supposed to have ripped off.

[BoeingKing77]

Dont forget the AK-47 was a copyoff of the Sturmewehr 44. And I dont think Luka metioned anything about when Mig or Tupolev were founded.And who cares about a titanium hull on a sub??US was the first with a nuclear powered sub.

[Curtis Malone]

And who cares about a titanium hull on a sub?

Its crew might.

[BoeingKing77]

Its crew might.

whats the difference between a titanium hull and a regular hull?

[SYDCBRWOD]

Dont forget the AK-47 was a copyoff of the Sturmewehr 44.

It actually had many 'parents':

The AK-47 is best described as a hybrid of previous rifle technology innovations: the trigger, double locking lugs and unlocking raceway of the M1 Garand/M1 carbine,^[12] the safety mechanism of the John Browning designed Remington Model 8 rifle,^[13] and the gas system and layout of the Sturmgewehr 44. Kalashnikov's team had access to all of these weapons and had no need to "reinvent the wheel",^[14][15] though he denied that his design was based on the German Sturmgewehr 44 assault rifle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47

That does not make it a copy - virtually all Semi/full auto military assault rifles use a gas system (with or without a piston) to operate the action.

And I dont think Luka metioned anything about when Mig or Tupolev were founded.

No, but he did claim that the Soviet manufacturers lacked pedigree. My posting the founding dates of the Soviet manufacturers proves that they are not 5 minute wonders.

And who cares about a titanium hull on a sub??

Actually you guys were. The USN went into a giant flap when they heard about the Alpha class subs - they were far faster and could probably dive far deeper that existing US designs (titanium being stronger than the steel then used). The traditional USSR bugbears of poor propellor design and noisy machinery let the design down however - but in terms of technical achievement - it is as yet unmatched.

US was the first with a nuclear powered sub.

Suggestion - take a look at the context of my answer before posting. I was not posting a list of firsts, I was replying to the claim by Luka:

"Their entire country is built around importing ideas and making cheaper repros of them."

[Luka]

Hey BoeingKing, sorry i've left you to soldier on without me, i don't have the net at home. I think Sid, Sydcbrrr (whatever) has admitted we're right anyway. I think he's more interested in being contrary than any real conviction...He can go join the Russian Airforce and enjoy himself if he thinks they are so "up to it".
Two points before i bow out of this arguement/debate:
1. Pedigree is not only about time but what one does in that time and how it gets built upon.
2. "Don't be LAZY - do your own research." - Its a great trick to right something outrageous and have someone else tell you more about a specific subject. I'm not lazy in this case, just think my research time is better spent on world leaders instead of imitators.
Actually, i am a bit lazy.

[SYDCBRWOD]

Hey BoeingKing, sorry i've left you to soldier on without me, i don't have the net at home. I think Sid, Sydcbrrr (whatever) has admitted we're right anyway.

Err... yeah that's why I have been agreeing with you (BTW, thats sarcasm felllas)

I think he's more interested in being contrary than any real conviction...

No, more interested in correcting your dopey claim that the Russians have copied everything. Patently not true, in fact given that you have not a shread of proof I'd say you guys are the ones on the back foot.

He can go join the Russian Airforce and enjoy himself if he thinks they are so "up to it".
Two points before i bow out of this arguement/debate:
1. Pedigree is not only about time but what one does in that time and how it gets built upon.
2. "Don't be LAZY - do your own research." - Its a great trick to right something outrageous and have someone else tell you more about a specific subject. I'm not lazy in this case, just think my research time is better spent on world leaders instead of imitators.
Actually, i am a bit lazy.

I've spent quite a bit of time doing my research to back my points. You asked the question:
One question: How many of these OBVIOUS rip offs have come out BEFORE the Allied version? Hmmm?

10 minutes on Google could have gotten you the answer. If this debate was of any true interest to you, you would have invested the time to prove your point. Instead you throw around vague generalisations and by you own admission have been very lazy. You are a troll. As you are not serious about continuing the discussion I won't be wasting my time.

[Luka]

Thanks for that, your boring the hell out of me...probably everyone else too.

[BoeingKing77]

oh yeah,why wouldnt the maker of the AK deni hat he copied it-the russians never do.They stole the blueprints of a lot of german weapons(not saying that Britain and US never did)and they had no origionality,they stole the blueprints,had to ask the british for the nene,and forged it.

[Luka]

Go son!

[BoeingKing77]

Go son!

thx