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Boeing to offer 767 in KC-X competition

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  • Boeing to offer 767 in KC-X competition

    As expected, Boeing will reply to the RFP with a 767-based tanker proposal. Notably, it will use a 787 flight deck. Check out the sly jabs at AirBus in the press release:

    he multi-mission aircraft is named NewGen because it includes several state-of-the-art systems to meet the demanding mission requirements of the future. They include:

    * A digital flight deck featuring electronic displays taken directly from the most advanced commercial airliner in existence -- the Boeing 787 Dreamliner -- that show all flight attitude, navigation, engine indication and crew-alerting information on screens 75 percent larger than on a commercial Airbus A330.
    * A new-generation fly-by-wire boom with an expanded refueling envelope and increased fuel offload rate. It will meet the Air Force requirement and simplify refueling operations to reduce workload for the aircrew and improve safety and reliability. Boeing is the only team in the KC-X competition that has invented, manufactured and delivered combat-tested aerial refueling booms.
    * The Boeing NewGen Tanker will be controlled by the aircrew, which has unrestricted access to the full flight envelope for threat avoidance at any time, rather than allowing computer software to limit combat maneuverability.
    Full press release here:
    ST. LOUIS, March 4, 2010 -- The Boeing Company [NYSE: BA] today announced that it will offer the Boeing NewGen Tanker in the competition to supply the U.S. Air Force with a multi-mission aerial...
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  • #2
    Interesting. Even with this announcement which I'm not surprised that they stick with the 767, except for the 787 cockpit, I still think the Northrop Grumman/EADS A330 will still win the competition. The A330 is a finished product while Boeing's 767 is still being worked on It took Boeing's BITC&$#$ to dismiss Northrop Grumman/EADS last victory in the previous competition to get to where they are now. I support the whole American jobs thing but when one competitor has a finished product, one that will be assembled in the US, versus the other competitor who can't still decide upon what they want to do, I gotta go with the A330. Either one will be built by partly/mostly by American workers anyway.

    I do like the underlining jabs made by Boeing, of course it was not on purpose...not.
    what ever happens......happens

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    • #3
      Unfortunately Eric I don't share your optimism. When Boeing lost the last comp, they were shown the all of the costings for the Airbus/NG bid. The new competition is not on a cost plus basis that it was - its now a fixed price tender - winner has the lowest bid. Boeing has a smaller, older (read amortised) airframe and so should be cheaper to build. It has the advantage of knowing what is competitors breakeven mark is, so can price its bid accordingly. Additionally, there is no longer any 'bonus points' for exceeding any of the specs - so long as you meet the minimum requirements you rate a pass. The fact that the A330 passes by a higher margin most of the standards is considered irrelevant. This is why NG has spat the dummy and is making noises as though they will not compete. It's odd... It's almost as though the specs were rewritten for the 767 to win... Either way its a loss for the US taxpayer - either they get a smaller less capable airframe or there is no competition and they get the smaller less capable airframe AND no competition - imagine what that will do for prices...

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      • #4
        I like this bit...

        A new-generation fly-by-wire boom with an expanded refueling envelope and increased fuel offload rate. It will meet the Air Force requirement and simplify refueling operations to reduce workload for the aircrew and improve safety and reliability.

        It WILL meet.... In other words it doesn't yet. The KC30A boom has been tested and passed fuel at 1200 gallons per minute - fact. The 'fact' that:

        "Boeing is the only team in the KC-X competition that has invented, manufactured and delivered combat-tested aerial refueling booms"

        Means jack if your boom hasn't yet demonstrated the ability to deliver fuel at the required rate, and in fact is still on the drawing board.

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        • #5
          Rumours doing the rounds NG/Airbus aren't even going to re-enter the competition. Not helped by more than one legislator giving it the usual, "Some big European planemaker isn't happy. Tough."

          Good effort boys. Best to cut your losses and leave it to Boeing on this one. You're fighting a losing battle, I suspect.


          Foundation Course in Aviation Engineering on-going; Stage One of the journey to professional engineer!

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          • #6
            Either way its a loss for the US taxpayer - either they get a smaller less capable airframe or there is no competition and they get the smaller less capable airframe AND no competition - imagine what that will do for prices...
            Any American jobs out of it? Remember that Scott Brown won in MA because of the fact that joblessness is high and dragging on. The US taxpayer has spent way more money than this contract trying to get people back to work.

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            • #7
              The 13 trillion question is, does USofA afford any of these aircrafts?
              I donīt think so, best option would be to rebuild MD-11s, sure the new
              B767 can be sold to Japan, perhaps Italy?
              "The real CEO of the 787 project is named Potemkin"

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              • #8
                its sooooo wrong if we get 330s made by a company in another country. Aircraft for the US should be made by a company that is based in the US,not FRANCE
                August 29th will be the worst day of the year.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by BoeingKing77 View Post
                  its sooooo wrong if we get 330s made by a company in another country. Aircraft for the US should be made by a company that is based in the US,not FRANCE
                  Never mind the fact that the final assembly line for the KC-330 would have been in Mobile, Alabama, and last I checked that is still part of the US.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by SYDCBRWOD View Post
                    ............................."Boeing is the only team in the KC-X competition that has invented, manufactured and delivered combat-tested aerial refueling booms"

                    .......................................
                    When Boeing merged with McDonnell Douglas they acquired the proven refueling boom from the KC-10 tanker. So Boeing presumably has the KC-135 and KC-10 technology plus technology developed for the operational KC-767.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by DAL767-400ER View Post
                      Never mind the fact that the final assembly line for the KC-330 would have been in Mobile, Alabama, and last I checked that is still part of the US.
                      But still,the fact is,the 330 is a foreign made aircraft,I dont care if its built over here or there,its still a foregin made aircraft. The KC-767 would be an aircraft built and made in the USA. We dont want a foregin made aircraft in our military. I dont care if other militaries have had other aircraft made by different countries. WE ARE THE USA. WE DEMAND AMERICAN MADE AIRCRAFT FOR OUR MILITARY!!!!!
                      August 29th will be the worst day of the year.

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                      • #12
                        Facts
                        Why Boeing? Here's why.

                        FACT: If Boeing wins the contract for America's new Air Force tanker, approximately 50,000 jobs for Boeing and its supply base will be created and supported here in the United States.

                        FACT: If Airbus wins the contract, a vast majority of the work will be done in France, Germany, Spain, and other European countries with only a small percentage of the work done in final assembly in the United States.

                        FACT: Boeing invented boom refueling 60 years ago and leads the world in state-of-the-art aerial refueling technology.

                        FACT: Airbus has never delivered a boom equipped operational tanker to a customer.

                        FACT: Boeing's tanker would be built at existing plants in the United States. Airbus has not broken ground on its promised Alabama-based tanker plant.

                        FACT: Boeing has over 155,000 employees in all 50 states. Most recent numbers show that Airbus has about 2,000 employees in the United States.

                        FACT: Boeing supports an additional 1.2 million supplier related jobs in the United States.

                        FACT: In 2003, the U.S. Department of Commerce found that Airbus had exaggerated its American job creation claims, claiming at least three times as many American suppliers as it actually had.
                        August 29th will be the worst day of the year.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by BoeingKing77 View Post
                          But still,the fact is,the 330 is a foreign made aircraft,I dont care if its built over here or there,its still a foregin made aircraft. The KC-767 would be an aircraft built and made in the USA. We dont want a foregin made aircraft in our military. I dont care if other militaries have had other aircraft made by different countries. WE ARE THE USA. WE DEMAND AMERICAN MADE AIRCRAFT FOR OUR MILITARY!!!!!
                          Lol... i almost felt touched by all that patriotism...

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by AndreGarcez View Post
                            Lol... i almost felt touched by all that patriotism...
                            ok......
                            August 29th will be the worst day of the year.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by BoeingKing77 View Post
                              its sooooo wrong if we get 330s made by a company in another country. Aircraft for the US should be made by a company that is based in the US,not FRANCE
                              I remember something about critical chips in American missiles being imported. I wondered at the time why America was willing to depend on foreign industry for military technology. I understand why corporations will outsource anything and everything. They have no loyalty to any political system, only to their own executives' compensation packages (no they don't feel loyalty to stockholders either, or we wouldnt have had all those banks teetering on the brink of doom).

                              So I hope its the globalization freaks who are cheering for foreign manufacture of tankers. Them I understand because foreign trade is their real religion. But for those of us who are agnostic, trade is simply something to use for national advantage or not use when not advantageous. And believe me, having a healthy manufacturing base is the mark of a strong country. If anyone isn't a "patriot", fine, but if you really want to live in a WEAK country where foreigners are pulling all the strings, then I have to wonder.

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