Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Mosquito Vs Zerstorer

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Mosquito Vs Zerstorer

    In an attempt to change the subject line, i will ask one of my more "moderate" questions.
    The Mosquito whilst partially made of wood!, proved itself an awesome fighter bomber...One of the few to make the end of the war and fly on...We even built them here in Australia.
    The Bf/Me 110 Zerstorer was built as a heavy fighter (and of course because of Hitler, every aircraft had to be able to take bombs aswell! Pfft!) It turned into a complete liability, cannon (or rifle calibre) fodder for the RAF.
    I've often wondered why. What was the big difference or differences in these two aircraft? What was the factor that made these two comparible aircraft so different in capability? Other twin engines heavy fighters had been trialed too, trying to mirror the success of the Mosquito, all had failed. (Even an attempt by germany building its own Moskit (SP?)
    Was it the engines? DB601 Vs Merlin? Was it the power to weight ratio? (Mosquito built from wood). Was it a structural areodynamic feature? Why was the 110 never really changed throughout the war? Especially the high viz canopy (which just gave the fighter pilots something to aim for.) Would bigger engines have created a legend like the Mosquito? Something tells me it was more than just power.

  • #2
    Let's toss the P-38 into this dog fight? Note that it takes just one American to do the job that it takes 2 or 3 Limeys or Krauts to do.

    I should have paid more attention come to think of it since the A-3 or B-66 of my era is the overweight big fat brother of these aircraft perhaps?

    The service ceilings give a hint with the P-38 @ 44,000, the Mosquito @ 37,000 and the bf 110 @ 36,000.

    If you can't reach me can you swat me?

    Speeds are 443 for the p-38 versus 415 for the Mosquito and 370 for the bf 110.

    The Mosquito gets swatted hard in a climb @ 1,700 fpm with the 110 @ 2,500 but the P-38 is scooting like a heaven bound angel @ 4,750 fpm

    Oddly the A-3 has everything in speed with two J-57's but the P-38 can fly higher (44,000) versus the 41,000 of the RA-3. ** A-3 was a light bomber not a fighter/bomber
    Live, from a grassy knoll somewhere near you.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by guamainiac View Post
      Let's toss the P-38 into this dog fight? Note that it takes just one American to do the job that it takes 2 or 3 Limeys or Krauts to do.

      I should have paid more attention come to think of it since the A-3 or B-66 of my era is the overweight big fat brother of these aircraft perhaps?

      The service ceilings give a hint with the P-38 @ 44,000, the Mosquito @ 37,000 and the bf 110 @ 36,000.

      If you can't reach me can you swat me?

      Speeds are 443 for the p-38 versus 415 for the Mosquito and 370 for the bf 110.

      The Mosquito gets swatted hard in a climb @ 1,700 fpm with the 110 @ 2,500 but the P-38 is scooting like a heaven bound angel @ 4,750 fpm

      Oddly the A-3 has everything in speed with two J-57's but the P-38 can fly higher (44,000) versus the 41,000 of the RA-3. ** A-3 was a light bomber not a fighter/bomber
      - hmmm...trust a yank to come up with this! Its difficult to put the P-38 in the same category, it had a difficult teathing and entered late - Not an early twin engined aircraft. Plus the twin boom design with "pod" makes it a different aircraft. However, i think from what you say, that it is a power thing? Or power and weight? (110 was a heavy beyatch). I would have stuck DB605s on or a Jumo, re-design the cockpit, lose the extra man (except for radar models) - and maybe a wing re-design allowing greater manouverability - Plus created dedicated bombers and dedicated fighters. The concept was sound (as the Mosquito proves), but the 110 was sluggish - a design and power problem, BOTH could have been remedied with limited disruption. Maybe Willy stood his ground, maybe they were being used against their design (makes a good ground attack) - though the breif was for a heavy fighter or destroyer. With so much tightness around "war materials" i would have thought the 110 would have been abandoned for 190s?

      Comment


      • #4
        I think this bird was cooler and better than all of the mentioned,
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dornier_Do_335_Pfeil
        "The real CEO of the 787 project is named Potemkin"

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Alessandro View Post
          I think this bird was cooler and better than all of the mentioned,
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dornier_Do_335_Pfeil
          - Well, using that logic, the Me262 blows that out of the water too! MMmm...262.....
          Made a great ground target! And what was with the canopy!? I think the designer was on drugs. Clever to have a twin engined aircraft with the aerodynamic footprint of a single engine aircraft though, man after my own heart with that thinking. A big sucker too! Not sure how it would have went to be honest. Very fast ,but the extra engine would have been easy to hit...

          Comment


          • #6
            I'll have to see if my friend got a photo of the Dornier. That is one aircraft that just commands attention.
            Live, from a grassy knoll somewhere near you.

            Comment


            • #7
              Draw fire?

              Dornier Length 45' Wing 45' and 592 square feet of wing

              Mosquito L = 41, W = 54, SF= 454

              bf 110 L = 40, W = 53, SF= 414

              P-38 L = 37, W = 52, SF = 327 ** the P-38 saw action from Pearl to the end so it was not a late comer to the war.

              me 262 L= 34, W = 41, SF = 234 speed 559 mph fpm climb of 1,200 ceiling 37,565
              Live, from a grassy knoll somewhere near you.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Luka View Post
                - Well, using that logic, the Me262 blows that out of the water too! MMmm...262.....
                Made a great ground target! And what was with the canopy!? I think the designer was on drugs. Clever to have a twin engined aircraft with the aerodynamic footprint of a single engine aircraft though, man after my own heart with that thinking. A big sucker too! Not sure how it would have went to be honest. Very fast ,but the extra engine would have been easy to hit...
                Not easy to hit and in case it did the pilot had a fuse to explosives to blow the prop off.
                Me-262 wasnt as good, needed a lot more infrastructure, backup prop-plane to defend it during start and landing, the Comet same story at the start. More pfeil info at http://www.luft46.com/prototyp/go9.html
                "The real CEO of the 787 project is named Potemkin"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by guamainiac View Post
                  P-38 L = 37, W = 52, SF = 327 ** the P-38 saw action from Pearl to the end so it was not a late comer to the war.
                  I don't think comparing the Mosquito to the -110 to the P-38 is fair to any of the three. Different designs for some seriously different purposes.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Are we out of beer?

                    I can only remember being in awe up close to two planes, the Vulcan in the RAF museum and then the Dornier that is at the Dulles museum.
                    Live, from a grassy knoll somewhere near you.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by guamainiac View Post
                      Draw fire?

                      Dornier Length 45' Wing 45' and 592 square feet of wing

                      Mosquito L = 41, W = 54, SF= 454

                      bf 110 L = 40, W = 53, SF= 414

                      P-38 L = 37, W = 52, SF = 327 ** the P-38 saw action from Pearl to the end so it was not a late comer to the war.

                      me 262 L= 34, W = 41, SF = 234 speed 559 mph fpm climb of 1,200 ceiling 37,565
                      - Draw fire?? - Not quite sure what you mean here mate. The Dornier is almost all engine, so a hit, any hit, will most likely hit an engine. Blowing the prop just helps lowering drag, it doesn't compensate for the drag of a dead engine pulling your tail or nose down - or an engine fire (twice as likely!)
                      The Mosquito and 110 have very similar dimensions, illustrating the simmilar thinking in what is to be and how it was to be used. The 110 was classed as a heavy fighter, p-38 a Heavy Fighter and the Mosquito a bunch of roles including fighter and Heavy fighter (de Haviland Hornet). The P-38 was not in the area during the attack on Pearl (Never forget Pearl!) P-36s and P-40s.The P-38 came after,and then was fraught with problems, it was 43' before the dive flaps were changed over and 44 before ALL were considered "fully airworthy".
                      And as for the 262, NO aircraft designer designs a aircraft with the end stages of war in mind. He cannot "factor-in" the fact that the allies were so close that they could follow the enemy back to base and strike and fly back. The 262 only needed prop cover because of its slow take off and landing...something that had NO bearing on its ability as a fighter. I'll fight you all day on the 262 mate...
                      Anyway, somebody have a problem with what i've said...i'm only just getting warmed up!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Luka when you mentioned ground target I just looked at the L & W and square feet of wing.

                        I meant it was in service from the time of the Pearl attack.
                        Live, from a grassy knoll somewhere near you.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Luka View Post
                          - Draw fire?? - Not quite sure what you mean here mate. The Dornier is almost all engine, so a hit, any hit, will most likely hit an engine. Blowing the prop just helps lowering drag, it doesn't compensate for the drag of a dead engine pulling your tail or nose down - or an engine fire (twice as likely!)
                          The Mosquito and 110 have very similar dimensions, illustrating the simmilar thinking in what is to be and how it was to be used. The 110 was classed as a heavy fighter, p-38 a Heavy Fighter and the Mosquito a bunch of roles including fighter and Heavy fighter (de Haviland Hornet). The P-38 was not in the area during the attack on Pearl (Never forget Pearl!) P-36s and P-40s.The P-38 came after,and then was fraught with problems, it was 43' before the dive flaps were changed over and 44 before ALL were considered "fully airworthy".
                          And as for the 262, NO aircraft designer designs a aircraft with the end stages of war in mind. He cannot "factor-in" the fact that the allies were so close that they could follow the enemy back to base and strike and fly back. The 262 only needed prop cover because of its slow take off and landing...something that had NO bearing on its ability as a fighter. I'll fight you all day on the 262 mate...
                          Anyway, somebody have a problem with what i've said...i'm only just getting warmed up!
                          But the Do335 was the fastest of the prop-planes and the big barrels of enginecoiling the Me-262 had was just asking to be hit. The engines was better and Me-262 needed backup planes to defend itself, Do335 could takeoff and land without protection.
                          "The real CEO of the 787 project is named Potemkin"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Alessandro View Post
                            But the Do335 was the fastest of the prop-planes and the big barrels of enginecoiling the Me-262 had was just asking to be hit. The engines was better and Me-262 needed backup planes to defend itself, Do335 could takeoff and land without protection.
                            - The Do335 was Un-proven. It didn't have a "career". It had a number of possible faults - it didn't have the experience to show up these faults...or strengths either. THE best piston engined aircraft of the war was the FW190-D9. How about i meet you in the skies over Berlin in your arrow, my Dora would wind circles around you before turning you into a fly whos just hit an outdoor zapper...a smoking black dot plummeting to the ground.
                            Why do you think they posted the BEST piston engined fighter to protect the 262 during landings? Because the 262 was even better! A more valuable air asset.
                            The 262 only needed protection at certain airfields at certain times of the war....big deal!
                            Oh, and the engine nacelles were equivalent or smaller than a piston engine and cowling. They were afforded some protection from the wing above also.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Who cares what Jane's says (because my copy got destroyed), but when you mention one aircraft it makes you think of another and this happens anytime you pigeon hole something. Wike (the source of course), does have a list of comparable aircraft and the bf, P-38 and mosquito are all listed along with a host of others and the weight, power and payload swing wildly. They toss in the Gloster 9/37, DH Hornet, P-38, Marauder and a bunch others.

                              Pandora's Box of Fighting Airplanes

                              Just on the ability of "getting out of Dodge City", based on climb, speed and altitude if I had a choice of what to be flying it sounds the the Lightning. One of the reasons that the kits to improve roll didn't reach the ETO was because one of the RAF jockeys shot down the shipment. Ooooops.
                              Live, from a grassy knoll somewhere near you.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X