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  • #16
    Originally posted by Peter Kesternich View Post
    Well - it wasn't rumors at that time, and nobody said there was nothing to worry about... not even Neville Chamberlain. If he hadn't been worried, he wouldn't have gone to Munich. But the situation today is VERY different. The Allies in the 1930s were dealing with a hostile government and a hostile country of a comparable size and strength. Today the US and the Western world are dealing with an attack on our way of life by a group of individuals.

    I never said to put blind faith in a politician, but I say you should put faith in a politician, because what's the alternative? Putting faith in a general? Good Lord... No.
    - Mate, its a bit like you come from a parralell universe, but where things happen a little differently...I won't bore you or everyone else with piddling quibbles but...WWII WAS played down by everybody. Rumours were RIFE like before during and after every war. People were relying on treaties and strong holds like Singapore and France to prevent war...
    The US does have countries that covert the US's power and influence and have always wanted a peice of the action...What we're seeing in the new mellenium is a number of those countries flexing their muscle, making statements, investing in military infrastructure, bank rolling insurgents...anything that will test and diminish the US. The sub theory ISNT a conspiracy theory, merely an open possibility and under your own rules of logic - it IS a likely scenerio in todays climate. Please don't use the word impossible again, that word gets people killed.

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    • #17
      A blogger reckons he may have solved the mystery over the vapor trail spotted off the southern coast of California on Monday.

      On his blog "Time to Think," Liem Bahneman on Wednesday pinpointed America West Flight 808 as the likely cause -- backing up an explanation offered by a senior military official to Fox News Channel that the contrail caught on video by a news helicopter “was more likely caused by an airplane than anything else."

      Bahneman wonders if he is the first to call it: "I did a lot of extrapolation of what flights could be at the right position (off the coast) at the right altitude (for contrail formation) and came down to two possibilities: UPS Flight 902 (UPS902) or America West Flight 808 (AWE80."

      He concluded: "As I was researching tonight (24 hours later), I realized that today's (Tuesday's) AWE808 current position (at around 4:50 p.m.) was almost the same as it was the day of the incident. I quickly pulled up a Newport Beach webcam and found that (apparently) AWE808 was making an identical contrail, 24 hours later!"

      Bahneman cited another blog, ContrailScience.com, which lists a wealth of other details about jet airplane contrails. The blogger behind that site agreed with Bahneman, telling FoxNews.com that "the plane is flying directly TOWARD you, so it starts below the horizon. The contrail at the horizon is far away, maybe 50-100 miles behind the plane, and has been spread out by the wind, creating the illusion that it's closer."

      http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/...ssile-mystery/

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      • #18
        Well, that should satisfy ATFS - the proof is from Fox.

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        • #19
          Not a sub launched ballistic missile. It is an extremely time consuming and expensive process to develop an SLBM. India and Pakistan have both been nuclear powers for some time yet they are yet to deploy the capability. That rules out your 'axis of evil' or terror groups.

          None of the existing powers with SLBMs would be stupid enough to:

          A) launch a missile in US territorial waters,

          B) find themselves that close to the US mainland. Given that most SLBM have intercontinental range, it would be sheer folly to launch a withing a hundred k's of the coast. They are far more likely going to be thousands of k's away.

          C) The launch security procedures are so complex to preclude the cleaning boy accidentally firing a missile.

          Occams Razor - the most obvious is the most likely - a contrail.

          Incidentally, the theory that the bad guys are 'probing the defences' is rubbish. This is the sort of event that you get one shot at so to speak - you don't waste that one shot 'just checking'.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by SYDCBRWOD View Post
            Not a sub launched ballistic missile. It is an extremely time consuming and expensive process to develop an SLBM. India and Pakistan have both been nuclear powers for some time yet they are yet to deploy the capability. That rules out your 'axis of evil' or terror groups.

            None of the existing powers with SLBMs would be stupid enough to:

            A) launch a missile in US territorial waters,

            B) find themselves that close to the US mainland. Given that most SLBM have intercontinental range, it would be sheer folly to launch a withing a hundred k's of the coast. They are far more likely going to be thousands of k's away.

            C) The launch security procedures are so complex to preclude the cleaning boy accidentally firing a missile.

            Occams Razor - the most obvious is the most likely - a contrail.

            Incidentally, the theory that the bad guys are 'probing the defences' is rubbish. This is the sort of event that you get one shot at so to speak - you don't waste that one shot 'just checking'.
            - Everyones Assuming this is a big, probably nuclear missile being fired.
            I gotta tell people, its not rocket science () to re-design a sub, or any other platform to fire a missile...Big ones yes, small or small medium size is very do-able...But what damage will it do? Plenty these days with NBC in the hands of the "bad guys". Long range missiles are few and frowned upon and are costly. A short or medium range missile is very much in the arsenal, so coming close would be a necessity. Launching the mssile within US tewrritorial waters IS the message...we can get close and we can fire. Australia's subs are almost undetectable by the US. Any deisel sub is a bugger to pick up.
            I gota go...maybe pick this up tommorow!

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Luka View Post
              - Mate, its a bit like you come from a parralell universe, but where things happen a little differently...I won't bore you or everyone else with piddling quibbles but...WWII WAS played down by everybody. Rumours were RIFE like before during and after every war. People were relying on treaties and strong holds like Singapore and France to prevent war...
              The US does have countries that covert the US's power and influence and have always wanted a peice of the action...What we're seeing in the new mellenium is a number of those countries flexing their muscle, making statements, investing in military infrastructure, bank rolling insurgents...anything that will test and diminish the US. The sub theory ISNT a conspiracy theory, merely an open possibility and under your own rules of logic - it IS a likely scenerio in todays climate. Please don't use the word impossible again, that word gets people killed.
              Let me guess: you are from Poland or an American of Polish descent? *lol...

              Originally posted by Luka View Post
              - Everyones Assuming this is a big, probably nuclear missile being fired.
              I gotta tell people, its not rocket science () to re-design a sub, or any other platform to fire a missile...Big ones yes, small or small medium size is very do-able...But what damage will it do? Plenty these days with NBC in the hands of the "bad guys". Long range missiles are few and frowned upon and are costly. A short or medium range missile is very much in the arsenal, so coming close would be a necessity. Launching the mssile within US tewrritorial waters IS the message...we can get close and we can fire. Australia's subs are almost undetectable by the US. Any deisel sub is a bugger to pick up.
              I gota go...maybe pick this up tommorow!
              "NBC in the hands of the 'bad guys'"? I don't really understand the meaning of this.

              Anyway, after even FOX broadcast that it was a contrail, we should put this discussion to rest.
              Last edited by Peter Kesternich; 2010-11-11, 16:17.

              Comment


              • #22
                Honestly, ATFS_Crash, reading your last post makes me really wonder how any person can be so historically and politically uneducated. Your use of the words 'fascist' and 'regime' are ample proof of that.

                These days I often wonder if the "Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave" turned into the "Land of the Timid, Ignorant, Intolerant and Short-sighted". Fortunately, there are many people in the US who still manage to convince me otherwise.

                Okay - now we are completely off-topic. *lol... Well, since the real topic of this post has been resolved anyway, there's no need for further discussion and I think it's time for it to fade of the j.net homepage.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by ATFS_Crash
                  Make up your mind. On one hand you seem to be saying it is an airplane on the other hand you seem to be saying it was a missile.
                  Where? I have made one post on this topic, where I mention SLBM's ('S' as in Submarine). I have never mentioned aircraft. I'm expecting an apology.

                  Originally posted by ATFS_Crash
                  Who said it was launched in US territorial waters? Last I checked US territorial waters only went out 12 nautical miles.
                  Correct. Subsitute EEZ. The point is still valid, if you have SLBM's you don't fire them from 10's of km from the coast, you sit thousands of km away.

                  Originally posted by ATFS_Crash
                  The so-called experts claimed that India and Pakistan had no nuclear program, and that even if they started one it would be decades before they had one.
                  Which experts and can you prove I am one of these 'experts'?

                  Originally posted by ATFS_Crash
                  Fools like you typically underestimate a potential opponent.
                  Evidence?

                  Originally posted by ATFS_Crash
                  Many of the so-called experts also claimed that the Japanese would never attack Pearl Harbor. Many of the so-called experts also claimed that bin Laden could never harm the mainland US.
                  yada yada yada, you'll be claiming I'm Bin Laden next. Get back on your meds.

                  Originally posted by ATFS_Crash
                  Only a fool like you would conclude that janitorial personnel fired a missile.
                  Except that I never did " The launch security procedures are so complex to preclude the cleaning boy from accidentally firing the missile ". But you go ahead and make it up as you go along, we've grown to expect lies from you.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Try real hard to understand the concept:

                    NEWS is a business and the sensational sells. Would you listen to or buy a paper that proclaims .. "Unknown Atmospheric Phenomena Over Ocean" .. or "Missile Launched Off California Coast - Disneyland Under Assault"

                    I love the way that dopey broad (act like an idiot get called on it), goes from alleged or whatever to the factual "the missile" to add urgency and credibility.

                    The real news is dead and the world of infotainmant is upon us.

                    No, I do not see "de flame, de flame", you idiot, what I see is perhaps the object getting illuminated by the rays of a setting sun. Yeah, Mr. Wizzard, that is how it works and you can see this rare event every evening at about that time. I have seen aircraft "go up in flames" a thousand times.

                    Go back to your regularly scheduled shows on UFO's and the paranormal.
                    Live, from a grassy knoll somewhere near you.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Time to bring this one to end methinks. Thanks all for the input.
                      If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

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