India Rejects F16/F18 Bid for MMRCA

[Eric Diffoot]

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2011/04/28/356106/us-confirms-india-fighter-rejection.html

Definitely a blow to the US for the future of F16/F18 production lines, with the Eurofighter and Rafale as the apparent final contestants. Favorite seems like the Eurofighter with the Rafale as the dark horse.

[justLOT787]

Very interesting because I think that all those planes are equally good and if I was India I probably would go with F-16, Rafael, F-18 then EUROFighter. But I think F-16 is one of the best fighters out there and most affordable. But since US is out of the race then I would probably go with French Rafael.

[Peter Kesternich]

Well, the problem that I would have with the F-16 if I was the Indian Defense Department is that the F-16 only has one engine and is basically 1970s technology, even if it has been upgraded extensively.

I am wondering, jusLOT787: Why would you prefer the Rafale over the Typhoon?

[justLOT787]

Well those two planes are very identical in every way, well almost I know that the Typhoon is newer and slightly bigger and bit more powerful, Rafael is less expensive. So why would I want to spend more money for some thing that I could get for less money. Rafael and Typhoon use the same weapons and to me those two are very identical. When it comes to production Typhoon is backed up as far as I know and Rafael is not. Personally I like the aesthetic of the French fighter more. When it comes to air to air fight I would say the better pilot has the edge like in any new fighter out there.



Typhoon

 Crew: 1 (operational aircraft) or 2 (training aircraft)
 Length: 15.96 m (52.4 ft)
 Wingspan: 10.95 m (35.9 ft)
 Height: 5.28 m (17.3 ft)
 Wing area: 51.2 m2[219] (551 sq ft)
 Empty weight: 11,150 kg (24,600 lb)
 Loaded weight: 16,000 kg[219][220] (35,000 lb)
 Max takeoff weight: 23,500 kg (52,000 lb)
 Powerplant: 2 × Eurojet EJ200 afterburning turbofan
 Dry thrust: 60 kN (13,000 lbf) each
 Thrust with afterburner: 89 kN (20,000 lbf) each
 Fuel capacity: 4,500 kg (9,900 lb) internal[219]
 Maximum speed:
 At altitude: Mach 2 (2,495 km/h/1,550 mph)[221][222][223]
 At sea level: Mach 1.2[218] (1,470 km/h/910 mph)[224]
 Supercruise: Mach 1.1–1.5[216][225]
 Range: 2,900 km (1,800 mi)

Rafael
 Crew: 1–2
 Length: 15.27 m (50.1 ft)
 Wingspan: 10.80 m (35.4 ft)
 Height: 5.34 m (17.5 ft)
 Wing area: 45.7 m² (492 ft²)
 Empty weight: 9,500 kg (C), 9,770 kg (B),[86] 10,196 kg (M) ()
Loaded weight: 14,016 kg (30,900 lb)
 Max takeoff weight: 24,500 kg (C/D), 22,200 kg (M)[87] (54,000 lb)
 Powerplant: 2 × Snecma M88-2 turbofans
 Dry thrust: 50.04 kN (11,250 lbf) each
 Thrust with afterburner: 75.62 kN (17,000 lbf) each
 Maximum speed: **High altitude: Mach 2 (2,390 km/h, 1,290 knots)[86]
 Low altitude: 1,390 km/h, 750 knots
 Range: 3,700+ km (2,000+ nmi)
 Combat radius: 1,852+ km (1,000+ nmi) on penetration mission .
 Service ceiling: 16,800 m (55,000 ft)
 Rate of climb: 304.8+ m/s (60,000+ ft/min)
 Wing loading: 306 kg/m² (62.8 lb/ft²)
 Thrust/weight: 1.10 (100% fuel, 2 EM A2A missile, 2 IR A2A missile)

[madnish30]

Well Mikoyan MiG-35 was also in the race, when the idea of MMRCA deal was tabled. But the Americans and the Russians have been booted from the deal, that's sure.
Russians are said to have been booted because they are famous for cost escalations and hidden costs. And Americans because the F-16 is the jet which India's arch rival Pakistan Air Force has, getting the same jet will be stupid and strategically not a good option.
Also America and Russia are good allies of India, getting jets from one and not the other can upset either of them.
Hence, IAF went the European way, and of course on paper the two European jets were stronger from Day 1.

[Peter Kesternich]

Well - from a political point of view, it definitely makes sense get a European jet, thus avoiding to alienate either the Russians and the Americans. As for not getting the F-16, it is definitely an inferior product to all the other planes in the race (F-18, MiG-35, Rafale, Typhoon). It will be really interesting to see which plane India will eventually chose, and whether the deal will involve an Indian production line for the type.

[madnish30]

Well - from a political point of view, it definitely makes sense get a European jet, thus avoiding to alienate either the Russians and the Americans. As for not getting the F-16, it is definitely an inferior product to all the other planes in the race (F-18, MiG-35, Rafale, Typhoon). It will be really interesting to see which plane India will eventually chose, and whether the deal will involve an Indian production line for the type.

Indian production line is highly unlikely, because Indian organizations already have their hands tied with too many projects, and they are busy with getting Tejas to a stage that it becomes productively inductable in the IAF.

[Eric Diffoot]

What might be a factor is if they want the winner be able to be carrier capable, obviously the Rafale is able to, but it looks like the Typhoon is heading that direction as well.

http://www.defencetalk.com/naval-eurofighter-an-aircraft-carrier-version-under-development-31926/

[Peter Kesternich]

Oh man... I bet the British are getting second thoughts now about the F-35 and the QE-class carriers...