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No more F-22's-why???...

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  • #16
    Originally posted by brianw999 View Post
    (...) the USAF Chief of Staff who has flown the entire USAF inventory including the F22 and F35 described the Typhoon quite simply as .... the best !! (...)
    ... and it also is the best-looking of the lot

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    • #17
      "more recently, there have been repeated reports that two RAF Typhoons deployed to the USA for OEU trails work have been flying against the F-22 at NAS China Lake, and have peformed better than was expected. There was little suprise that Typhoon, with its world-class agility and high off-boresight missile capability was able to dominate "Within Visual Range" flight, but the aircraft did cause a suprise by getting a radar lock on the F22 at a suprisingly long range. The F-22s cried off, claiming that they were "unstealthed" anyway, although the next day´s scheduled two vs. two BWR engagement was canceled, and "the USAF decided they didn´t want to play any more .
      “The only time you have too much fuel is when you’re on fire.”

      Erwin

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      • #18
        Originally posted by ErwinS View Post
        "more recently, there have been repeated reports that two RAF Typhoons deployed to the USA for OEU trails work have been flying against the F-22 at NAS China Lake, and have peformed better than was expected. There was little suprise that Typhoon, with its world-class agility and high off-boresight missile capability was able to dominate "Within Visual Range" flight, but the aircraft did cause a suprise by getting a radar lock on the F22 at a suprisingly long range. The F-22s cried off, claiming that they were "unstealthed" anyway, although the next day´s scheduled two vs. two BWR engagement was canceled, and "the USAF decided they didn´t want to play any more .
        In 2007?
        http://eucitizens.eu/Forum/index.php?topic=166.0

        I somewhat skeptical of this story since the USAF rarely, if ever, uses China Lake. If true, more likely the flying was at Edwarcds AFB.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by ErwinS View Post
          There was little suprise that Typhoon, with its world-class agility and high off-boresight missile capability was able to dominate "Within Visual Range" flight,
          See the bit in red? There's your problem. Any 5th gen aircraft being employed using half a brain is going to stay BVR (Beyond Visual Range), use the other supporting assets via Link16 to target the adversaries without emitting any radiation and pop 4th gens BEFORE they get WVR. A Sopwith Camel is more manouvreable than a Typhoon. It isn't being used because it would never make it to the furball to make use of its advantage.

          Originally posted by ErwinS View Post
          but the aircraft did cause a suprise by getting a radar lock on the F22 at a suprisingly long range. The F-22s cried off, claiming that they were "unstealthed" anyway, although the next day´s scheduled two vs. two BWR engagement was canceled, and "the USAF decided they didn´t want to play any more .
          5th gen airframes are fitted with devices (basically radar reflectors) so that in peacetime they are visible to ATC and other aircraft on radar. It also keeps the bad guys from getting an actual picture of the radar cross section of the airframe. The excuse is plausible. OR the other thing that may have occurred is that one of the edges on the F-22 may have been at right angles to the radar of the Typhoon for a short while (note all the edges on the airframe are aligned at the same angle - at that particular angle you may get a return) - thus betraying it's position for a very short while. I'd guess not long enough to fire and reliably guide a radar homer. By the time the Typhoon had gotten a lock, it would probably have had an AIM 120 arriving at about the same time.

          If you cannot be seen it is much harder to be shot.

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          • #20
            Armament

            Brian, not sure where that info is from on the 3 aircraft you posted or how up to date it is. FYI, the fact that the F-35 cannot carry an AIM-9X sidewinder internally is not much of an issue for the UK or Australia. We use the AIM-132 ASRAAM - arguably a more capable missile and it can be carried internally.

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            • #21
              And if F-22 really lost in air-to-air to EF, what does it mean for Rafale. Is Rafale the best western fighter today? I mean it dominated Typhoons over Corsica 9:1.
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              • #22
                Well the Rafale scored the best in the Swiss competition to replace the F-5E. So maybe ..Yes.
                “The only time you have too much fuel is when you’re on fire.”

                Erwin

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