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  • WTF in HKG?

    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...d=516&ncid=716

  • #2
    *Sigh*... Most people here view Tung as a puppet - he always bows to Beijing's demands and never looks after HK's own interests. In other words, he's just "scrubbing the Central Government's shoes" (sucking up).

    Currently, there's at least one protest a week against the government, and massive demonstrations are planned on June 4th (the 15th anniversary of Tiananmen) and July 1st. Apparently the Central Government believes that if it dishes out enough economic sweeteners, we'll be happy - but Hong Kong people have radically changed.

    In addition, some say that Beijing's current hardline stance on the issue might trigger another mass exodus, not unlike the 80's and early 90's when nearly 10% of the population fled overseas.

    Cathay Pacific - The Heart of Asia

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    • #3
      Hong Kongers shouldn't be surprised. I mean, did they really expect a democracy under the PRC? Were they that naive?

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      • #4
        Tung and his grossly overpaid cabinet cannot rely on one or two years of higher than average economic growth to keep the people happy. Unemployment is rising, fiscal deficits and deflation continue to persist, and yet the government continues to encourage optimism while providing no concrete solutions. Brilliant. I don't see what China's problem is. A democratic Hong Kong won't hurt China's interests, a large group of disgruntled dissenting Hong Kongers who've been denied the right to electing their executive will.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by iceman
          Hong Kongers shouldn't be surprised. I mean, did they really expect a democracy under the PRC? Were they that naive?
          The thing is we didn't revert back to China by choice - the Handover was negotiated by the UK and the PRC. There was even an independence movement here a few years ago (back then public opinion polls even showed that a large majority wanted an independent country).

          Cathay Pacific - The Heart of Asia

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          • #6
            Asian Brushstroke:

            I actually agree with you. I think Hong Kong should be an independent country. Hong Kongers are much different culturally than the mainland Chinese. Hong Kong truly is a unique place, like Singapore. I can’t see why it wouldn’t survive as a city state like Singapore. I mean, do you truly feel like a part of China? Do you want to be part of China? Maybe you’re ethnically Chinese, but so are most Singaporeans. They sure as hell don’t feel allegiance to the PRC.

            My point is that Hong Kongers knew what was going to happen, even if they had no choice in the matter. The PRC has never hid their intentions over HK, so they really shouldn’t be surprised. Many Hong Kongers saw this and fled to foreign countries to secure foreign passports just in case things get really bad in Hong Kong. Already, a lot of foreigners have left and the expat community is nowhere near as vibrant as it was, say, five years ago.

            It makes me sad because Hong Kong is one of my favorite cities in the world and at one point I wanted nothing more than to live there as an expat. Sadly, those days are long gone and I guess I have to pursue other dreams.

            A340_flyer:

            I agree with your points too. Tung is just an overpaid mouthpiece. He says what he’s paid to say and nothing more. But I disagree with you about a democratic HK not being problematic to the PRC. On the contrary, a democratic HK is against everything the PRC stands for. Let’s not forget that the PRC is a dictatorship. For one thing, what do you think the mainland Chinese will think when they see HK, which is now part of China, holding democratic elections and having a free press? I don’t think they’d be too happy and they’d probably be very jealous. It could cause a lot of unrest for the PLA and maybe another revolution.

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            • #7
              The outcome of Taiwan's election also gives PRC excuses to do so.
              Airline Route News
              Airline Route Map Drawings

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              • #8
                HKG needs to be independent country like SIN. Since Singapore was used to be with Malaysia and now independent country by chinese peoples.

                Do you think Indoensia is now independent country after 1998 riots?

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                • #9
                  Are you suggesting HK needs a riot?

                  Originally posted by pbateson
                  HKG needs to be independent country like SIN. Since Singapore was used to be with Malaysia and now independent country by chinese peoples.

                  Do you think Indoensia is now independent country after 1998 riots?
                  Airline Route News
                  Airline Route Map Drawings

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                  • #10
                    Iceman, thanks for your valuable insight (you really know your stuff).

                    Originally posted by iceman
                    Many Hong Kongers saw this and fled to foreign countries to secure foreign passports just in case things get really bad in Hong Kong.
                    Exactly why most of my extended family hold Canadian or American passports, and why many of my classmates have British passports. Then again (as I'm sure you know), the vast majority of the population are descendants of refugees (or the refugees themselves) who fled the Mainland when the CCP took over or while the Cultural Revolution was happening, so historically the city has been very anti-communist.

                    I still remember the times when you could see Taiwanese flags draped all around the city on Taiwanese National Day - now they're pretty much nonexistent. However, it feels kind of odd to be indirectly ruled by the Communist Party and be just mere kilometres from crackdowns of all kinds. For example, HK was not affected by the total blocking of Google a number of months ago, the Falun Gong is still legal here and other religious activities banned on the Mainland continue to thrive. The amount and regularity of protests here also show that we have an unprecedented amount of freedom of expression compared to the Mainland.

                    In addition, independence would be a really hard issue to decide on - I guess you could say Hong Kong is suffering from internal conflict over this matter. We want to be separate yet we want to be part of Greater China. Integration with the surrounding Pearl River Delta region has been pointed out as the way forward for the city's economy - we're just not big enough (7 million) to be a major world economy. I have to admit that it is kind of funny to be part of the PRC yet speak a totally different language. I even know of quite a few Hong Kongers who don't speak a single word of Mandarin!

                    Cathay Pacific - The Heart of Asia

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by jiml1126
                      Are you suggesting HK needs a riot?

                      Originally posted by pbateson
                      HKG needs to be independent country like SIN. Since Singapore was used to be with Malaysia and now independent country by chinese peoples.

                      Do you think Indoensia is now independent country after 1998 riots?
                      No! Not riot.

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                      • #12
                        Asian Brushstroke,

                        I cannot believe that China is a communist country.

                        What about Taiwan?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by pbateson
                          Asian Brushstroke,

                          I cannot believe that China is a communist country.

                          What about Taiwan?
                          Politically, China is still communist (or socialist depending on your definition); but economically, the country is becoming increasingly capitalist.

                          Taiwan has a very democratic political system (which is not unlike what HK people aspire to), but is known for mudslinging within its internal politics.

                          Cathay Pacific - The Heart of Asia

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                          • #14
                            Asian Brushstroke:

                            How big is Singapore? 3-4 million people? They’re handling the city-state status just fine! And they are a major player in Southeast Asia. Singapore probably has the best quality of life of any city in the world – for sure it’s the best in Asia. Who says HK can’t be that way?

                            I think HK has the ideal characteristics to be a successful city-state – even more so than Singapore. You guys are right underneath Guangdong province, which is by far the most prosperous province in China; you have an excellent natural harbor; you have a world class airport; you have a very educated and multilingual population; you have an excellent infrastructure; and, most importantly, you guys have experience and know how to make money! China is a new player and they are just beginners in the world economic stage. But Hong Kong has been in the game for years. It’s in your blood!

                            Anyways, about Chinese “socialism”. I’d venture to say that China is one of the most capitalistic countries in the world now. When I was there, a tour guide was explaining the system. Someone commented: “for a socialist country, you sure are experiencing a lot of growth. How can you guys be socialist?” The guide responded: “Oh, were socialist all right...but with ‘Chinese characteristics!’” LOL. Classic.

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                            • #15
                              Iceman:

                              Good point (about Singapore), but one issue people raise is that HK does not have its own army, whereas Singapore's is one of, if not the best-equipped in the region. And I think a lot of us would fear a Chinese invasion if we were independent. I don't know why, but it would feel kind of weird to have a seat in the UN much like Singapore currently does. Our status is more or less ambiguous though, with independent membership of the Olympics, WTO, WHO, etc.

                              You really encapsulated the reasons why Hong Kong has become so successful - but I'm not so sure about the multilingualism part, as English standards have declined rapidly since the Handover (actually more like 1998 when most public schools changed their teaching medium from English to Cantonese).

                              The guide responded: “Oh, were socialist all right...but with ‘Chinese characteristics!’” LOL. Classic.
                              Heh, that's what I learned in history last year - I guess most Chinese officials would describe it that way.

                              Cathay Pacific - The Heart of Asia

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