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UN envoy calls Israel "poison" of the middle-east

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  • #16
    It's not widely reported in the press, but the UN owes the City of New York hundreds of millions of dollars in unpaid parking fines and other violations. They refuse to pay and the US Government said they won't pay their debts unless the UN forks up the cash. It takes two to tango.

    Anyone who lives in NYC will witness the buffoonery of the UN and its “diplomats” first hand. Many of these people live in my neighborhood. I used to have some respect for the UN until I moved to New York and witnessed these morons in action. No wonder why nobody takes them seriously anymore.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by uy707
      The US has been biggest debtors due to some facts I listed above, first of which as behaving as a virtual conduit for Soviet Union.
      Strange excuse. So basically if some country does not like the contents of some resolutions, it has a right not to pay its bills? Iceman's point is interesting, didn't know about it. Still, couldn't it be the other way round?

      About the regular bad payers : the african countries, which routenely, boringly turn to France to set the bills. And yes, personnally, it bugs me out to see them keeping the right to express especially versus the donators who pay their bills...
      They have a right to say whatever they want, and in the same conditions as any other member. That's what the UN is basically founded on. Now, if France doesn't like what these countries say in the UN (which would be totally understandable), than they have the freedom not to pay those countries' debts.

      Being a democracy can be accepted as a legitimization, by accepting the reverse you endorse for instance Cameroon in conducting a very bad diplomacy, which it's starting at last to pay back!
      What I'm saying is that we cannot say one countries' opinion is more accurate or more objective because that country is a democracy, while it's rivals are not democratic. It might be a marginal factor...no more than that.

      The proWestern resolution as you hint it just date back more or less to the early 1990s, which was not the case from 1950 to 1985.
      Alain
      So basically you are saying that until 1985 or 1990, there were no (or few) "pro-western" resolutions? I doubt that, but I'll check it out to be absolutely sure, although quite a few resolutions that favour other countries come to my mind.

      I think most countries have and have had difficulties accepting "unfavourable" UN-resolutions, no matter if they were western, eastern, muslim, jewish, etc., making anything or ayone responsible of it but themselves (not refering to any particular case here).

      However, as long as you accepted to be a member of the UN or any other kind of organization, you should also respect the decisions taken by that organization. Remember Socrates? He was convicted without any real reason, but still refused to escape or to bribe the guards, clearly assuming the obligation he accepted by entering the society of Athens.


      @Iceman:

      I have no doubt that many diplomats are a disgrace to the country they represent. However, this is not limited to representatives at the UN, nor is it limited to some countries. I can tell you from my own experience that many diplomats from serious countries are really a disgrace, while other diplomats, from smaller countries, or even countries that might be considered as extremists are highly educated, intelligent and quite objective if you consider their background. I guess the same happens at the UN (just a guess, I haven't been there to see it myself), and the presence of incompetent people shouldn't turn it into a basket case or eliminate its credibility (just as a corrupt government still has to be respected as a government). Of course, the UN is as good as its members want it to be. The whole spying thing that came to light some weeks ago clearly shows that things are not working there as they should.

      As to the "unpaid parking fines and other violations": diplomatic immunity prohibits any country to charge fines for violations by foreign diplomatic representatives from them or the countries they represent (another reason why some diplomats misbehave and people dislike all diplomats together) . Don't know if UN-officials have any immunity and what kind, nor if the UN as a whole has any. Maybe that's the reason for the dispute.

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      • #18
        Herpa:

        No one is forgetting the holocaust and its impact.

        BUT, Criticizing Israeli policy is not a form of anti-semitism

        It seems like that the Jews and Israelis are "obsessed" with the holocaust.

        Jews and Israelis think that they're still living under the holocaust days and tends to think everyone is anti-semetic, which anti-semetic is no longer and shouldn't be exists in the 21st century.

        It's like if you praise me, I'll give you some rewards. If you don't, you go to hell.

        as for the UN Envoy, he just simply lost his credibility.
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        • #19
          Originally posted by Aeroposta



          So basically what you are saying is that Arab states have no education? Don't you think that's a prejudice? Are you saying all people criticising Israel are dumb or uneducated?
          But perhaps people should read more into why palestinians are so mad about the whole thing (small hint: they had nothing to do with holocaust).
          No. I am simply saying that a large number of Arab countires have little to no education about the holocaust, which is a shame. Perhaps if they were taught a little more about why the Jews needed a homeland, and why the emigrated to Palestine in huge numbers in the 1940s, they would be more understanding.

          I will agree that both sides are wrong. I don't like Israel shooting an unarmed Palestinian teen any more than I like a Palestinian suicide bomber murdering dozens of people on a bus or in a restaraunt. However, Israel at least tries to limit civilian casualties, while the terrorists on the other side do just the opposite.

          It seems like that the Jews and Israelis are "obsessed" with the holocaust.
          Of course they are. And they very well should be. Many still living today lost parents and grandparents, brothers and sisters in the tragedy. Having over 30,000 of your people shot in a two day period, or having 6,000,000 of your kind sent to gas chambers or shot certainly has a prodound effect on the survivors, and on the ancestors of the survivors.

          Jews and Israelis think that they're still living under the holocaust days and tends to think everyone is anti-semetic, which anti-semetic is no longer and shouldn't be exists in the 21st century.
          I disagree. Anti-semitism is alive and well in Europe and the Middle East. Perhaps you remember the numerous Jewish temples and schools that were fire bombed in Paris just a few months ago? Or the bombings against Jewish targets in Casablanca? Or the Jewish place of worship that went up in flames in Strasburg?
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          • #20
            No. I am simply saying that a large number of Arab countires have little to no education about the holocaust, which is a shame. Perhaps if they were taught a little more about why the Jews needed a homeland, and why the emigrated to Palestine in huge numbers in the 1940s, they would be more understanding.
            True, but does any israeli ask them why they are so mad, why they dislike and don't trust Israel? Israel has been adding and expanding one settlement after the other in some territories that were assigned to Palestine by peace-treaties they (the Israelis) themselves had signed. And that hasn't happened 50 years ago, but is still happening today, with active or passive consent of most western countries.

            So, what I'm saying, without defending neither the Palestinians (who have a mayor share in that conflict too) nor the Israelis, is that in order to solve that problem, people on both sides will have to make an effort to try to understand the other side. Of course, it's almost impossible to convince extremists on both sides, but if you can convince average people and gain their trust, those extremists won't have people's support anymore. Unfortunately, leaders on both sides are achieving just the opposite with their current behaviour, and giving the other side's extremist further supportamong their people.

            As Iceman said, it takes two to tango.

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            • #21
              Of course I heard the news about the arson against Jewish interest in Europe and Canada, which should be condemned with a doubt.

              However, you kept avoiding this problem: why does Jews/Israelis always HAVE TO THINK that people are anti-semetic whenever they criticize Israeli's policy?

              As for the obsession. If you obsessed with it, and learn the lessons from it, that's fine.

              BUT, this obsessions has turn ugly and negative. Jews/Israelis begin to mix up the anti-semitism and criticizion of the israeli policy.

              Can I ask you do you know how to distinguish what's the real anti-semitism and the criticizion against the government?
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              • #22
                Nice use of HTML, Jim. The problem is that much criticism of Israel today is based on anti-Semitism. Look at most of the people behind it? Nobody is denying that there is legitimate criticism of Israel, but it's hard to believe that many of those throwing the critiques are really genuinely concerned about the plight of the Palis where there are more dire and legitimate grief-stricken people in the world who get little to no attention. Why should the Palis get all the interest?

                Now, Jim, why do you care so much about the Palis? Do you show the same concern for other groups in the same -- and most probably WORSE -- conditions as them?

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                • #23
                  The problem is what does it have to be anti-semitism when criticizing what the government does?

                  Should we "applaud" their act for killing innocent people?

                  Originally posted by iceman
                  Nice use of HTML, Jim. The problem is that much criticism of Israel today is based on anti-Semitism. Look at most of the people behind it? Nobody is denying that there is legitimate criticism of Israel, but it's hard to believe that many of those throwing the critiques are really genuinely concerned about the plight of the Palis where there are more dire and legitimate grief-stricken people in the world who get little to no attention. Why should the Palis get all the interest?

                  Now, Jim, why do you care so much about the Palis? Do you show the same concern for other groups in the same -- and most probably WORSE -- conditions as them?
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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by jiml1126
                    The problem is what does it have to be anti-semitism when criticizing what the government does?

                    Should we "applaud" their act for killing innocent people?

                    Originally posted by iceman
                    Nice use of HTML, Jim. The problem is that much criticism of Israel today is based on anti-Semitism. Look at most of the people behind it? Nobody is denying that there is legitimate criticism of Israel, but it's hard to believe that many of those throwing the critiques are really genuinely concerned about the plight of the Palis where there are more dire and legitimate grief-stricken people in the world who get little to no attention. Why should the Palis get all the interest?

                    Now, Jim, why do you care so much about the Palis? Do you show the same concern for other groups in the same -- and most probably WORSE -- conditions as them?
                    You avoided my questions and you abolutely missed the point. But I am not surprised.

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                    • #25
                      I think he is saying that Israel might intentionally and strategically turn down any critical comments about their policies saying they were based on antisemitism, even if they knew they weren't. However, some of the most agressive criticism against Israel has come from israelis, some of them jews, others christians, just as a lot of palestinians criticize terrorists and fundamentalists.

                      There are always worse things happening in the world than those that you most care about. I think it also has something to do with people commenting more about those things the media address. However, evaluating the importance of every problem on ones own doesn't imply hate or lack of objectivity. Lots of people commenting about Israel doesn't have to mean it's all based on hating jews (while hate against jews is not a synonym of anti-semitism). And the situation in Palestine is not concerning them only but, in a certain way, the whole world, as the agression between muslims and jews has been taken place on all continents since decades, and has cost many lifes among people that had nothing to do with any of them.

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                      • #26
                        They whine to the UN when it suits them.

                        They use the UN when it suits them.

                        They abuse the UN when it suits them.

                        *shrug*





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                        • #27
                          Agree. Unfortunately, that's close to a throwback to the 19th century.

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