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Will The Forces In Iraq Ever Learn??

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  • Will The Forces In Iraq Ever Learn??

    Military investigates shooting of wounded insurgent
    Commanders fear tape will discourage surrendering
    Tuesday, November 16, 2004 Posted: 0300 GMT (1100 HKT)



    FALLUJA, Iraq (CNN) -- The U.S. military is investigating whether a Marine shot dead an unarmed, wounded insurgent during the battle for Falluja in an incident captured on videotape by a pool reporter.

    The man was shot in the head at close range Saturday by a Marine who found him among a group of wounded men. The wounded men were found in a mosque that Marines said had been the source of small-arms and rocket-propelled grenade fire the previous day.

    The Marine in the videotape has been removed from his unit and taken to the headquarters of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force, and the Navy's Criminal Investigative Service said it plans to question one of the other wounded Iraqis as part of the probe, according to the pool reporter embedded with the unit.

    The investigation will determine whether the Marine violated any rules or should be charged with any crime. Lt. Col. Bob Miller, a staff judge advocate for the 1st Marine Division, said wounded insurgents who pose no threat generally "would not be considered hostile."

    The Marine seen shooting the man was part of a squad from the 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, which had been part of intense house-to-house fighting in southern Falluja.

    U.S. rules of engagement prohibit American troops from killing any prisoner who does not pose a threat, and commanders say they are worried the video might encourage more insurgents to fight to the death rather than surrender.

    The military asked that networks obscure the names and recognizable faces of the Marines inside the mosque when they broadcast video of the incident. The request came from Marine judge advocate Col. John Weil to NBC News, which videotaped the killing, and was based on privacy concerns.

    Friday, the Marines were fired upon by snipers and insurgents armed with rocket-propelled grenades from a mosque and an adjacent building. The Marines returned fire with tank shells and machine guns.

    They eventually stormed the mosque, killing 10 insurgents and wounding five others, and showing off a cache of rifles and grenades for journalists.

    The Marines told the pool reporter that the wounded men would be left behind for others to pick up and move to the rear for treatment. But Saturday, another squad of Marines found that the mosque had been reoccupied by insurgents and attacked it again, only to find the same wounded men inside.

    Four of the men appeared to have been shot again in Saturday's fighting, and one of them appeared to be dead, according to the pool report. In the video, a Marine was seen noticing that one of the men appeared to be breathing.

    A Marine approached one of the men in the mosque saying, "He's [expletive] faking he's dead. He's faking he's [expletive] dead."

    The Marine raised his rifle and fired into the apparently wounded man's head, at which point a companion said, "Well, he's dead now."

    When told by the pool reporter that the men were among those wounded in Friday's firefight, the Marine who fired the shot said, "I didn't know, sir. I didn't know."

    The Marines said they are investigating why the wounded Iraqis were left behind for 24 hours and whether the man was killed illegally. Navy investigators said they believe they have located the fifth Iraqi -- the only one not wounded a second time -- who said he wanted provide information about the killing.

    Before the Marines entered the mosque Saturday, a lieutenant from one of two squads involved in the fighting was told that there were people inside.

    "Did you shoot them?" he asked.

    "Roger that, sir," one of the men replied.

    "Were they armed?" the lieutenant asked. The other Marine shrugged.

    The Marine who shot the Iraqi man had reportedly been returned to duty after suffering a minor facial wound Friday.

    About a block away, a Marine was killed and five others wounded by a booby-trapped body they found in a house after a shootout with insurgents.

    The human rights organization Amnesty International raised concerns about violations of the rules of war last week, after a British news program broadcast video of what it said was the killing of another wounded insurgent by U.S. troops.

    Amnesty also noted reports that insurgents have used mosques as fighting positions, and in one incident appear to have used a white flag to lure Marines into an ambush.

    "All violations of international humanitarian law and human rights law must be investigated and those responsible for unlawful attacks, including deliberate targeting of civilians, indiscriminate and disproportionate attacks, and the killing of injured persons must be brought to justice," the group said in a statement issued Thursday.


    and we wonder why we can't gain the respect, hearts and minds of the Iraqi people.


    next trips
    USA/DXB August.

  • #2
    Well, we don't know what happened so we can't speculate. Marines have been killed approaching bodies that were booby-trapped. Also, soldiers have been killed approaching people faking death, only to open fire when the soldiers drew closer.

    We don't know what happened, and we will probably never know...
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    • #3
      Reminds me of how the "surrendering" Iraqis continually draw troops into an ambush...
      I don't condone what was done, but we will probably never know the entire story as the media will distort the facts, or just report the parts that sensationalize the issue.
      George R. Widener
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      • #4
        Great, typical Longreach with this, All Americans are evil, and America sucks, and were worthless, and we all deserve to be killed.

        Funny, he hates the US so much, he seems to side with Bin Laden, Destroy America

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        • #5
          I hope he's penalized. What a rat. I cannot stand people like that.... pisses me off. Agree'd Chris.
          Ryan Davis
          Admin, FlyerGuide.Net
          www.flyerguide.net

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          • #6
            I saw this on the nightly news on NBC. They had a piece of the video, but wouldn't show all of it, which was probably a good decision.
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            • #7
              Originally posted by chrisburns
              Great, typical Longreach with this, All Americans are evil, and America sucks, and were worthless, and we all deserve to be killed.

              Funny, he hates the US so much, he seems to side with Bin Laden, Destroy America
              excuse me, this incident was filmed by an NBC crew that was embedded with the troops, it's not anti anyone, if you can't see the damage that actions like this cause then your probably quite stupid. it was an article that was quite disturbing and if it gets out in Iraq it could have repercussions for many, not just troops but the innocent civilians too, obviously not alot of thought went into the shooting, maybe then it may not have happend.

              i just posted the article, and an honest opinion that the troops won't win any friends by these type of actions, how that makes me anti US and siding with Bin Laden i'll never know, but that's you perception and your entitled to it, as ill founded as it is, because 1 doesn't agree with US foreign policy does that make them a friend of Bin Laden?? quite a stupid comment.

              where have i ever said i hate the US or wished Americans killed? i dislike there foreign policies, that's not hating, but you'd be hard pressed to find someone that doesn't like 1 foreign policy or another of US these day's, so i guess the world must be full of people who are friends with and along side Bin Laden? including world politicians.

              we'd like to think that all the soldiers are in there doing the right thing, this certainly is not a good way to get the message across.

              er herpa, i think we will fully know the truth, after all it was filmed live and you can't dispute what the pictures show.


              next trips
              USA/DXB August.

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              • #8
                er herpa, i think we will fully know the truth, after all it was filmed live and you can't dispute what the pictures show.
                The film blacks out when the insurgent is shot. WE don't know if he was armed, booby trapped, or if he was making and sudden movement.

                I'm curious why you didn't post about the four hostages the US has rescued from Fallujah. Or about the mutilated body of a western woman, possibly the care director that was kidnapped, that was found. Seems like you only want to post things that make the US look bad...
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                • #9
                  How do we honestly know that they are acctually insurgents, do they have it writen on their head?
                  No i dont think so.
                  So basically the 1200 men who have been killed could be anyone from the age of 15 to 45.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ek_19
                    How do we honestly know that they are acctually insurgents, do they have it writen on their head?
                    No i dont think so.
                    So basically the 1200 men who have been killed could be anyone from the age of 15 to 45.
                    Maybe because they were carrying AK-47s and firing at US troops?
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                    • #11
                      Maybe because they were carrying AK-47s and firing at US troops?
                      Maybe they where deffending the homes, families and country?!

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by herpa2003
                        er herpa, i think we will fully know the truth, after all it was filmed live and you can't dispute what the pictures show.
                        The film blacks out when the insurgent is shot. WE don't know if he was armed, booby trapped, or if he was making and sudden movement.

                        I'm curious why you didn't post about the four hostages the US has rescued from Fallujah. Or about the mutilated body of a western woman, possibly the care director that was kidnapped, that was found. Seems like you only want to post things that make the US look bad...
                        because i hadn't heard about it til you just mentioned it. it not only makes the US look bad but the other forces that are involved in the conflict also, the US forces have done a pretty good job of making themselves look bad without any help from anyone else.

                        surely before shooting a person in the head you'd be able to ascertain if they posed a risk to your or not, especially as he was standing right over him when he pulled the trigger.

                        read the report, the man was UNARMED, the arrogance of the marine when he said, "Well, he's dead now." doesn't come across very positive, the part we saw is blacked out, the unedited version we've not seen due to it's graphic nature, so what can you digest from that?


                        next trips
                        USA/DXB August.

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                        • #13
                          it sucks that a few individuals screw up things for everybody. If he broke the rules I hope he gets the proper punishment. The thing that sucks about the news is that it makes it seem like because one person does something like this that everybody does.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by screaming_emu
                            it sucks that a few individuals screw up things for everybody. If he broke the rules I hope he gets the proper punishment. The thing that sucks about the news is that it makes it seem like because one person does something like this that everybody does.
                            Agreed 100%. The entire truth will never come out as the media has to sensationalize everything they touch...and to hell with the consequences.
                            George R. Widener
                            Oshkosh, WI USA
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                            • #15
                              Everybody seems to forget that the Marine that shot the man, was wounded when he was shot in the face just the day before.....I dont care If he "seems" alright to fight again.... Hes Obviously got a chip on his sholder..... IM NOT SAYING HE DID RIGHT.... he shouldnt ever shoot anyone unarmed......but If I got shot in the face 24 hours before this incident ID SHOOT AT ANYTHING THAT MOVED....... (information from NBC nightly news on the face shot)

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