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**ek_19** · 2005-01-28, 15:56

'You think that Saddam would have hesitated to give whatever WMDs he would have made to a terrorist group? Or even to use them once again on his own people?'

There has never been any proof that 'PRESIDNET SADDAM HUSSEIN Of IRAQ', who is still the president, as these electons are ilegal, was ever a member or has ever funded a terroirist group.

Im sure you will agree with me that what ever tactics Saddam has used against the Kirds who betrayed there country, is not different to what the Americans have done and are doing in Falujah.

'The thing is, we aren't actually going to nuke anyone. With Saddam Hussein, who used chemical weapons to kill thousands of his own people, nothing was certain.'

In the last 50 years, the only country to use WMD's is the USA. Take for example that America has done in Japan, Vietnam and Iraq. Im sure you will agree with me that you cannot compare this to what Saddam has done.

**herpa2003** · 2005-01-28, 16:05

Im sure you will agree with me that what ever tactics Saddam has used against the Kirds who betrayed there country, is not different to what the Americans have done and are doing in Falujah.

Absolutely not. Before we went into Fallujah, we risked our own soldier's lives by letting all of the innocnet men, women, and children evacuate the city. As a result the majority of the people left in the city when we went in were insurgents.

Did Saddam evacuate the Kurds before he gassed thousands of them? No, he had the intent on killing as many innocent civilians as possible.

In the last 50 years, the only country to use WMD's is the USA. Take for example that America has done in Japan, Vietnam and Iraq. Im sure you will agree with me that you cannot compare this to what Saddam has done.

We have used WMDs on one country, and that was to prevent the deaths of hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of people, including soldiers (theirs and ours) and Japanese civilians. Had we invaded the mainland, it would have been a bloodbath and the death toll would have been ten times higher than that of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

However, you are right. You can't compare the actions of the US to the actions of Saddam. The US has had the moral high ground, while Saddam was no more than a brutal terrorist. Tell me, when did we gas thousands of innocent civilians? When did we force our prisoners to eat their own body parts to survive? How many people have we put through plastic shredders?
How many people's tounges have we ripped out because they opposed the president? How many prisoners have we thrown off 9 story buildings, not high enough to kill them but high enough to cripple them? How many people have we flogged in public daily? How many hands have we chopped off?

Comparing Saddam Hussein and America is like comparing Bin Laden and Ghandi. You just can't.

**A332** · 2005-01-28, 16:26

I still find it hilarious that Bush supporters neglect to mention the very fact that the US REMOVED Saddam's Iraq from the list of terror states in the early 80s and cozied up to him and his gang and thugs.

List all the horrible things he did all you want... it doesn't change the fact that your government supported the monster while he killed and maimed thousands of people.

It doesn't change the fact that your government continues to support the Saudi royal family, another pack of despots who have a horrendous human rights record... but who cares about them right?

It was only when Kuwaiti oil became a concern that suddenly he wasn't a friend no more... shows the real priority, doesn't it?

**herpa2003** · 2005-01-28, 16:30

Originally posted by A332

I still find it hilarious that Bush supporters neglect to mention the very fact that the US REMOVED Saddam's Iraq from the list of terror states in the early 80s and cozied up to him and his gang and thugs.

List all the horrible things he did all you want... it doesn't change the fact that your government supported the monster while he killed and maimed thousands of people.

It doesn't change the fact that your government continues to support the Saudi royal family, another pack of despots who have a horrendous human rights record... but who cares about them right?

It was only when Kuwaiti oil became a concern that suddenly he wasn't a friend no more... shows the real priority, doesn't it?

Hindsight is 20/20. Sort of like how the US supported Russia by supplying them with arms and aircraft during WWII. I don't think anyone really knew what they were getting into...

**ek_19** · 2005-01-28, 16:42

'Absolutely not. Before we went into Fallujah, we risked our own soldier's lives by letting all of the innocnet men, women, and children evacuate the city. As a result the majority of the people left in the city when we went in were insurgents.'

If this is true why was the world media banned from entering Falujah until now, is it to avoid them from seeing the total the destruction???

Have you seen the American f-16's droping bombs over Falujah?
Have you seen the bodies of small children being dug out from underneath biuldings?

The aim of the American operation in Falujah was to destroy the city.

For your information Even Saddam Hussein did not do that against the Kirds, who were siding against the Iranians against there own country.

'Did Saddam evacuate the Kurds before he gassed thousands of them? No, he had the intent on killing as many innocent civilians as possible.'

Saddam did not attack kurdistan, he only attacked a few traitoirs who happend to be Kurds who were taking sides and fighting with the enemy against there own country. I wonder what America would have done in the same situation, drop a nuclear bomb, same as what they did in Japan, to save lives???

'We have used WMDs on one country, and that was to prevent the deaths of hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of people, including soldiers (theirs and ours) and Japanese civilians. Had we invaded the mainland, it would have been a bloodbath and the death toll would have been ten times higher than that of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.'

Your historical information is poor, all the defence experts have confirmed that America did not need to use Nuclear bombs on Japan as it was ready to surender.

I wonder if you heard about the vietnam war, and the millions of vietnamise who were killed by the USA, many died by internationally banned bombs. Have you seen that clip of the naked vietnamise girl running while she was on fire??? That wasnt caused by Saddam it was caused by American soldiers.

'The US has had the moral high ground'

HAHAHAHA your joking, right?

Starving a country for 11 years, then destroying there power stations, tv stations, briges, airline and infrastructure is surely moraly wrong!

'When did we force our prisoners to eat their own body parts to survive? How many people have we put through plastic shredders?
How many people's tounges have we ripped out because they opposed the president? How many prisoners have we thrown off 9 story buildings, not high enough to kill them but high enough to cripple them? How many people have we flogged in public daily? How many hands have we chopped off?'

What movie did this come from!?!?

Oh yea, about hands being choped of, isnt that Saudi Arabia?

'Comparing Saddam Hussein and America is like comparing Bin Laden and Ghandi. You just can't.'

America being compared to Ghandi!

The American regime has commited more injustice in the world in the last 20 years than any other country put together, im sure Ghandi would be ashamed to have been compared to Bin laden, but he would have been even more so if he was compared to the american regime.

**herpa2003** · 2005-01-28, 18:04

If this is true why was the world media banned from entering Falujah until now, is it to avoid them from seeing the total the destruction???

Maybe because it was unsafe...?

Have you seen the American f-16's droping bombs over Falujah?
Have you seen the bodies of small children being dug out from underneath biuldings?

Yes, our fighters dropped bombs, and yes innocent civilians were killed. However, those who stayed behind in Fallujah knew that they were risking their lives; they should have evacuated when they had the chance.

The aim of the American operation in Falujah was to destroy the city.

Riiight. If we wanted to destroy the city, we would have leveled it with our B-52s. Instead, ground forces were sent in to try and preserve the city. About 50 American soldiers were killed in Fallujah because we felt like being nice to the Iraqis.

Saddam did not attack kurdistan, he only attacked a few traitoirs who happend to be Kurds who were taking sides and fighting with the enemy against there own country.

Right. Since when can you call a few thousand people "a few"? And I'm sure the little kids who died because their insides were destroyed by poison gas were a real threat to Saddam.

Your historical information is poor, all the defence experts have confirmed that America did not need to use Nuclear bombs on Japan as it was ready to surender.

All the defence experts? LMAO! It was thought at the time (and is still thought) that a ground invasion of Japan would end up with more than a million people killed. The Japanese were not ready to give up. This is evident by the Japanese soldiers that fought against the Americans even when they were outnumbered 300 to 1. In Japan it was more honorable to die fighting than it was to surrender.

Starving a country for 11 years, then destroying there power stations, tv stations, briges, airline and infrastructure is surely moraly wrong!

Yes, and none of that would have happened had Saddam not decided to massacre the Kuwaities. And, it was the UN that starved Iraq for 11 years, not the US.

What movie did this come from!?!?

What movie? All of my statements were true accounts from prisoners of Saddam who lived to tell the tale. Also, some acts were videotaped (such as throwing people off of buildings or chopping their hands off). You can't just deny the fact that Saddam was more of a tyrant than America could ever be in 1,000 years.

The American regime has commited more injustice in the world in the last 20 years than any other country put together, im sure Ghandi would be ashamed to have been compared to Bin laden, but he would have been even more so if he was compared to the american regime

Injustice? Why don't you talk to the Jews? Or the French? How about the people in South Asia recovering from the tsunami? What about the Ivory Coast? Bosnia? Have you been living under a rock all of your life?!?

**herpa2003** · 2005-01-28, 18:12

Several thousand Kurdish villages were destroyed, forcing residents to live in appalling camps. In at least 40 cases, Iraqi forces under Saddam's cousin, Ali Hassan al-Majid, used chemical weapons to kill and chase Kurds from their villages. Then, during the Anfal campaign from February to September 1988, Iraqi troops swept through the highlands of Iraqi Kurdistan rounding up everyone who remained in government-declared "prohibited zones." Some 100,000 Kurds, mostly men and boys, were trucked to remote sites and executed. Only seven are known to have escaped.

**Simpleboy** · 2005-01-28, 20:37

You two need to calm it down, stop replying to this thread, add each other to your ignore list for a couple of days. Just calm down.

**herpa2003** · 2005-01-28, 20:40

Originally posted by Simpleboy

You two need to calm it down, stop replying to this thread, add each other to your ignore list for a couple of days. Just calm down.

I enjoy listening to the viewpoints of people from other parts of the world. I may think that they are wrong, but you have to agree that I have been very civil so far.

Besides, its been a while since JP.net has had a good old-fashioned debate.

ek, I apologize if I have offended you in any way....

**Simpleboy** · 2005-01-28, 21:03

Originally posted by herpa2003

I enjoy listening to the viewpoints of people from other parts of the world. I may think that they are wrong, but you have to agree that I have been very civil so far.

Besides, its been a while since JP.net has had a good old-fashioned debate.

ek, I apologize if I have offended you in any way....

You havent offended me, your replys seem to have the more "sarcastic aprrach".
ek_19 however has said more comments just based on his opinion on teh situation with no backings, thats more likely to get him flamed, the longer this goes on the more he can get flamed for.

**A332** · 2005-01-28, 21:07

I agree with Herpa... the thread has managed to stay afloat with relative civility, something you don't see often when the two sides butt heads.

If the sticks stay on the ice, no one gets hurt.

**herpa2003** · 2005-01-29, 14:14

Well, while we are on the subject of debating etiquette and respect for different viewpoints, I thought that I would post an example of what not to say from the "other" site...

From a "Brit" (I'm guessing he is actually Afghani), on America-

and america is an embarrassment to the planet and the human race to be honest

hate to say it but just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't make them stupid, I hate america and its ignorance with a passion

I know plenty about your stupidity when I was 16 I wrote a 3,000 word essay on why I despise your people so don't try to tell me I don't know what im talking about

See, this is like parlour talk compared to that...

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