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Tomorrow should hopefully prove to be a good day. After so much time we are finally getting with the times and decriminalizing small amounts of weed. This doesn't mean it's legal, it just means we get a somewhat small fine for possesion. The U.S. politicians seem to be bitching about it alot though, sadly they're living in the stone age as far as pot laws goes. We've got a long way to go to catch up to countries like The Netherlands and Switzerland. But those countries have proven to us North Americans that having pot laws causes more harm than good. I am not trying to condone smoking weed. I am just trying to say that some laws cause more harm than good. Atleast now I'll be able to smoke a little easier.
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Earl From Regina -
The legalization of marjiuana in Holland has actually lead to an increase in crime in Holland. Crime is Holland is quite high, actually.
As for Swtizerland, they tried to set up a drug-free zone in Zurich, and it turned into a mess.
Is legalization the answer? I don't know. I'll I know is I have friends who have been addicted to marjiuana and it messed up their lives. I grew up in Canada, where pot is widely available, but it's a problem in the US too. -
in germany there have also been negative effects(at least it seems so to me) since smoking and owning small amounts of weed became de facto legal.
since then the number of young people smoking have gone up alot. that might be the same in countries where it is still illegal tho so i dont know if its a very accurate estimate.
i do neverhteless think its a step in the right direction. drugs dont go away with laws against it. drug abuse is always an expression of problems in another sector or lack of education etc, and therefore its best battled with a functioning society and education that takes care of those issues that lead to drug use and even if its just peer pressure.aviation chat on irc: #flightsimulation@quakenetComment
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Dunno about where your from but they are trying to decriminalise M here in New South Wales and allowing it for medicinal purposes.
It's use is so widespread that I don't know why they haven't done it before considering we have more addictive and destabalising things such as tobacco - alcohol and gambling legal.
Not to mention an apparent 40% of the population under 30 has done ekkies before.
Just go to any nightclub and there is an alphabet of illicit drugs available to anyone at cheap prices.
I think it would be better for goverments to regulate it's supply to get the backyard chemists out of a job.
Gosh - as soon as someone says "don't do it" you'll have half the population clamoring for it anyway.
Hoo roo!
mbComment
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Iceman - Canada is NOT legalizing it. There are decriminalizing it for medicinal use. There is quite a distinct difference between legalization and decriminalization. Instead of locking someone up for use/possession, they are simply issued with a fine and the indiscretion is not recorded. (At least that is my understanding - any CANADIANS who know different, please correct me).
Maybe if the US took this approach, its jails would not be full of drug users and convicted murderers and rapists would not be walking the streets with their sentences cut short due to a lack of space in the prison system.
I am not advocating drug use. But it is my firm belief that it should be a priority to use prison capcity on punishing and police time on preventing and solving more harmful crimes - drug dealing and trafficking among them.
And seriously - if you are VERY ill and in SEVERE pain, then what harm does your smoking pot do to society?AIRIGAMI.NET
http://www.airigami.net - The next generation of paper airliner modeling.Comment
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If you have 15 grams or less in your posession (about 15 joints) you will receive a fine as low as $100.00. Growing and distributing marijuana can get you a prison term up to life in prison. The change is to remove the backlog of cases in the Courts, most of which are charges for having marijuana on them.Comment
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I'm talking about Myblock's comments on Holland and Switzerland (please read my post again). I know that Canada is not legalizing marjiuana. But I already thought that they allowed it for medicinal use. I know my friend got away with it for the longest time, but I think he had some sort of special permit that allowed it.Originally posted by AirigamiComment
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I have some problems with the article Iceman posted.
Firstly, it is posted by an organization that wants to prove that legalizing drugs is harmful. So they are hardly impartial. Having said that, I think that there is no really impartial organization that will publish anything. Therefore I will let that pass.
I will take some quotes and comment on them:
Citing Holland as an example, the legalization of drugs has resulted in greatly increased crime and addiction
But the same has happened in the US and indeed in the whole world!
REPEATING HISTORY'S MISTAKES
You could say Holland is repeating history's mistakes, fine... but who knows, perhaps the US is repeating history's mistakes. Decades ago all alcohol was banned (I believe it was called the "Prohibition"?).
During that period people used as much if not more alcohol than when it was illegal. As an added bonus the criminals could now make money out of it and uncle sam lost a lot of (tax) revenues.
Interestingly, during that time the use of marijuana and other drugs drastically increased.
Did it really increase drastically? I haven't got any numbers so perhaps it is true. Another option would be that a lot more people "came out". People dared to show that they were using drugs. Therefore a perception could have arised that more people were using.
Predictably, the use of drugs among `recreational' users dropped
Or they started doing it behind closed doors again.
Since the softening of drug policy there, shootings have increased 40%, robberies 62%, and car thefts 62%.
All true no arguing here. I have seen it since I am Dutch. Still, hasn't crime increased EVERYWHERE. Blaming something on one factor, in this case drugs, is always very easy to do. Every problem is caused by several factors, irrespective whether it is a plane crash, a computer malfuncation or crime.
The number of registered marijuana addicts has risen 30% and the number of other addicts has risen 22%.
Here too, how can you register something that officially does not exist. Prior to the legalization do you think anyone would have answered "Yes I am using criminal drugs" to any research insitute! I do not think so!
Okay, I am not saying it is good to use marijuana or indeed any drugs. However I do not believe that Marijuana is a lot more dangerous thatn, say, alcohol, nicotine or pain killers. Those are all legal!
In an ideal world all drugs are illegal and abusers prosecuted, but this is not an ideal world. If the police has to take priorities than I can understand that hunting for substances as dangerous as nicotine or alcohol take second place over substances like cocaine.
This does not just happen in Holland. In many European countries using soft drugs is de-facto legal. It is illegal, but you will not get arrested anymore unless there are special circumstances. If you start smoking pot in front of a German police officer you have a problem, if you start smoking pot in your German house you have no problem whatsoever.
There are many advantages to (de facto) legalizing soft drugs. Police forces, court rooms and prisons are not flooded by users. By completely legalizing you get some more advantages. In Holland soft drugs can and is checked for quality. You will not find stuff in Holland that is ill prepared and will kill you in the hour.
Another bonus is that unlike most of the rest of the world Holland actually KNOWS the size of the drugs problem. How many people use drugs, in which region more drugs is used, who sells it etc.
In Holland you actually pay TAXES over your soft drugs so the government makes a pretty penny from the drugs.
Addicts can be treated! In Holland we have one of the most professional de-tox systems in the world. Now critics will say the ony reason is because we need it! That is not true. The only reason is because in Holland people do not shy away from discussing the subject. In other nations the sofdrugs/addicts subject is STILL not done.
Let's examine what the US approach has given them. Drugs is still being used on massive scale (and if you do not believe it, go to Amsterdam. ANY American you will find there between 20 and 35 is stoned. If it could be done in the open in the US they wuold no doubt do so.). The "War on drugs" has costed the US treasury billions and the result is barely measurable. The money could be better spend by drug-prevention projects and de-tox institutions.
Then I would also like to point out that I have never used drugs before, nor have I ever smoked. I do like to drink alcohol from time to time.
Sorry for the size of this post.Comment
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Petertenthije, your post sums everything up perfectly...great post! Iceman, I can totally understand your side too. As a pot smoker, I feel it would be irresponsible of me to not listen to your side too. I feel for a person to make a decision on things you can't be biased, sadly though,some of your links you posted are very biased. Like the DEA one. I still read it though. Just like it would be biased for me to only read articles written by pro-pot people. I have read alot on the subject and have come to my own conclusion that pot laws seem to cause more harm than good.This however doesn't mean I don't listen to your arguments.Earl From ReginaComment
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Petertenthije:
AIRIGAMI.NET
http://www.airigami.net - The next generation of paper airliner modeling.Comment
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Still, no harmful drug should be made legal. When you are under the influence of a drug such as pot, your judgement is harmed, and there have been many crimes that have been caused by pot, including murder, rape, etc...you never know what somebody is going to do once it is in their system.Fly Raleigh-Durham International, with direct flights on Air Canada, AirTran, American Airlines, American Eagle, America West, Continental Airlines, Continental Express, Delta Airlines, Delta Connection, jetBlue, Northwest Airlines, Southwest Airlines, United Express and US Airways to:
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couldn't agree more...Originally posted by herpa2003Comment
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A policewoman friend of mine told me 2 things..
1. She hates it when they do a major heroin haul (bust) as less is on the streets - so the price for the addicts is higher - so she then has to attend the higher amount of break and enter and robberies / muggings that the addicts need to do to pay for the more expensive drugs.
2. A drug bust of imported 'eckies - quality goes down as local back yard makers push more dodgey ones - then she has to deal with more o/d's or having to get parents to hospitals when little sally or ralphy is sick with arsenic poisoning or tripping so badly they have to restrain them.
Cause & Effect.
It was an interesting commentary coming from my friend.
She wants the fairly tame recreational drugs legalised and sold like a pack of cigs it would free up more police time and get rid of the backyard pushers and dealers.
Any of these things can be addictive and cause misery in a persons life, but like I said before - so can gambling, smoking, drinking or speeding.
I'm not condoning what my friend said BTW - but there is more to the issue than meets the eye.
Anyone work in a emergency ward care to comment?
Hoo Roo!
mb
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Remember this has only been introduced in the House of Commons. It still has to pass and then go to the Senate before it becomes law.Comment
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