RIP medicare

[JeffinDEN]

Are you retarded? I mean i think we should sum this up. Not everyone HAS money to pay for healthcare. All competition does is make an excuse for the rich to get richer because they offer a better product and make the poor die because they can't afford the treatments needed. Jeff, i respect most of your comments whether or not i agree or disagree with them, but you're wrong on this one pal.

I disagree, it is a proven fact that competition in the market place ( any market place) lowers prices and provides a better product to the consumer. Socialized medicine has outrageous costs associated with it, and lowers the quality of care over all, and as described causes abuse. What it does is stiffle incentive across the board.

As to everyone not having money for healthcare....well, there are programs for those people that can't afford private insurance and doesn't cost them a fortune, or is even free in some cases for adequate care. But to say everyone must eat at MacDonalds when they can afford Ruth's Chris is rediculous to say the least. Competion does not make people die, that I'm afraid IS retarded. I hope you understand the analogy.

[Genessee]

I disagree, it is a proven fact that competition in the market place ( any market place) lowers prices and provides a better product to the consumer. Socialized medicine has outrageous costs associated with it, and lowers the quality of care over all, and as described causes abuse. What it does is stiffle incentive across the board.

Ruth's Chris Steakhouse kicks some serious ass.

While the system does get abused, and some things are paid for that are rather stupid (I don't get why tattoo removal is covered by OHIP), the costs are much lower than those in the US and Europe. I see claim forms and bills form all over the place (nothing from Asia yet though), and Canada is one of the cheapest around. (edit: quite possibly because it is subsidised...Just though of that)

[JeffinDEN]

Ruth's Chris Steakhouse kicks some serious ass.)

Yes it does!

and Canada is one of the cheapest around. (edit: quite possibly because it is subsidised...Just though of that)

Do you know where the subsidy comes from? Check your wallet. You just pay for it in taxes ahead of time, we just pay it as a premium to the healthcare provider we choose. And when it comes to my health, I don't want the "cheapest" anything, and I honestly don't like waiting when I don't have to. Some people pay extra for nicer cars, homes, clothes, etc..... why? Because they can, and they want to.

[Genessee]

Yes it does!

The comparison was good as well, I have gone to a McDonalds because the place had no tables Thats what I get for not calling ahead. *grumble*

Do you know where the subsidy comes from? Check your wallet. You just pay for it in taxes ahead of time, we just pay it as a premium to the healthcare provider we choose. And when it comes to my health, I don't want the "cheapest" anything, and I honestly don't like waiting when I don't have to. Some people pay extra for nicer cars, homes, clothes, etc..... why? Because they can, and they want to.

I know where it comes from, and I don't see taxes being lowered because of any private health care really. Once they've dig into our pockets, usually they don't want to let go. At least with the option of paying for better care, there will be less of a burden on the public funded system and those tax dollars would (I'd hope) do more good there. Good insurance often will get you better care anyway. I have great coverage for things that I worry about, eyes and teeth mostly. Regardless of how well I can brush or look after the eyes, I like to have them checked over often to make sure everything stays on track. Cleaning every four months, new contacts every 4 to 6 (depending how they feel).....It's not cheap, but it's alot better than what the gov't offers. One eye exam (exam only, extra stuff you pay for) every two years and a dental check up once a year? That sucks (edit: I'll have to check the dental, i'm not sure any of it is covered at all unless youre on welfare or something..)

No one should settle for second rate health care, or have to wait and suffer to get looked after. But there isn't the money to have excellent /immidiate/first class health care for everyone. Something you can live with. My grandfather waited almost two years for a hip replacement, and when I asked him about it (was talking to him this morning) he said he wouldn't have paid. He lived with the pain for several years. While it sucked, it wasn't going to kill him, and he saw no reason to run off and get it done right away.

[Leftseat86]

That is what competition brings, better healthcare.

Better Health Care for those who can afford it. If you can't...well SUCKS TO BE YOU DOESNT IT!

[JeffinDEN]

Better Health Care for those who can afford it. If you can't...well SUCKS TO BE YOU DOESNT IT!

No Clovis, better care for everyone, not just those who can affored it. And no, it does't suck to be me, I can afford it. Anyone can get a job.

I know where it comes from, and I don't see taxes being lowered because of any private health care really. Once they've dig into our pockets, usually they don't want to let go. At least with the option of paying for better care, there will be less of a burden on the public funded system and those tax dollars would (I'd hope) do more good there. Good insurance often will get you better care anyway.

That's unfortunate but true, politicians hate giving up control of your money, luckily our taxes do get lowered on some things but are usually offset upwards somewhere else. Adding the "pay for private" care in the long run will be a good thing. The more people move to it, the lower it's cost will become, and the people remaining on the gov't's "free" program should see shorter waiting times. I doubt they will see better treatment as there is no incentive what so ever to provide it, unlike the private plans which will have to offer shorter, better, etc. to draw in customers.

[Leftseat86]

No Clovis, better care for everyone, not just those who can affored it. And no, it does't suck to be me, I can afford it. Anyone can get a job.

Nevermind the people working two minimum wage jobs, who can barely afford rent, car payments and college tuition.

[JeffinDEN]

Nevermind the people working two minimum wage jobs, who can barely afford rent, car payments and college tuition.

Correct. When I first left high school, I had one full time, then a part time job, plus cutting grass on what ever time off I had on the weekends. College? Hah, I could barely put food on my table and gas in the car to go to work. Don't even preach to me about how poor people don't get any breaks.

If you want something, you have to work for it. And when you get something by working for it, you appreciate it. Why do you think society needs to pay your way on this? No one ever paid mine. Hell, I even had part time jobs while in the Navy to pay for stuff I wanted. I used one credit card to pay for another that I was using to keep a piece of crap car running for me, and one for my wife to work.

Sorry, I have no pity for those that won't help themselves. And yes, that is the difference.

[avro_arrow_25206]

I'm glad you're rewarded for your hard work Jeff, and yes it is only proper that one must work for what he/she wants. However, to have things stay the course, some element of luck needs to enter the equation. Some people work hard and who deserves success, but end up failing because they're in the "wrong place at the wrong time"