I hate the pope.

[Greg]

Ok, MM I'll give a short lesson, there are two testaments or covenants in the bible, the Old and New. Jesus was the new covenant, symbolized by communion. The remark concerning homosexuals is in the old covenant, made with Abraham. The old covenant had the sacrifices, etc and is now merely a historical prelude to the covenant that chrisitians live by now. So, extremists seize on that and run with their own agenda. That's how I've been taught more or less as a Presybetrian. Sorry about the off topic but you can't blanket anything. BTW, the bible says nothing about condoms or AIDS. I was a little hot headed about the close minded aspect, but to attack the entire religion, which I am a believer of, is off base.

[Messerschmitt Man]

OK point taken Greg.

It's a shame though theres a spectrum of christians ranging from extremely fanatical to respectable christians which have modified their lines of thinking to conform to the modern day. So when for example preists abuse children, the pope talks crap, a christian killing someone (because god said the victim was evil), these sort of thing bring down the entire religion. What I think would be great is if christians broke off into catagories, so only a specific catagory would get stick when they do something outside of whats considered normal.

That would be in an ideal world, and that's exactly what we don't live in.

[screaming_emu]

OK point taken Greg.

It's a shame though theres a spectrum of christians ranging from extremely fanatical to respectable christians which have modified their lines of thinking to conform to the modern day. So when for example preists abuse children, the pope talks crap, a christian killing someone (because god said the victim was evil), these sort of thing bring down the entire religion. What I think would be great is if christians broke off into catagories, so only a specific catagory would get stick when they do something outside of whats considered normal.

there's people like that in every walk of life, every religion, there are people that are even against religion so much that it isn't healthy. This is definately not something that can just be confined to catholocism, or christianity.

[Messerschmitt Man]

there's people like that in every walk of life

for sure, the only reason I'm singling out Christians is thats what the thread's about.

[TAP-A343]

Are you for real? DING DING DING! Wake up call! we are just animals with animal instincts!

People will ALWAYS have sex out of marriage. People who have sex and are not certain with their partner's previous sexual activity must wear a condom, if they are used properly there is little chance S.T.D's will be passed on.

So forget about that catholic crap, this is the real world.

TAP-A343 are you related to Geroge Bush by any chance? It's just I see striking similarities in the low levels of common sense between you both.

I don't answer posts with "low levels" (if any) of politeness. Learn good manners before you adress to me again, please. Thank you.

Regards.

[screaming_emu]

I don't answer posts with "low levels" (if any) of politeness. Learn good manners before you adress to me again, please. Thank you.

Regards.

agreed, you lose any chance of making a point in a debate if you lose your cool or insult people because as soon as you do that nobody wants to hear what you have to say.

[Messerschmitt Man]

HIV/AIDS is a sexually transmitted disease therefore if people would follow the "traditional teaching of the Church" meaning no pre-marital sex, 100% fidelity during marriage nobody would get infected except through blood transfusions.

That infomation is just about as useful as me saying "if nobody ever drives a car there will never be any car accidents." And thats dead right just like your quote. HOWEVER; It's a fact of life that people will always drive a car, but minimising fatalities is possible through driver education (sex education) and a safe car (protection for sex).

TAP-A343 In person and in other threads your probably a top bloke, but you seem to be misguided in this thread. I won't lose sleep over you not answering my post, you'd probably only go on to quote and agree with chrisburns comment on the "HIV virus being smaller than the meshing on the condom" On a side note it doesn't take a rocket scienctist to put a spoonfull of water in a condom, and to notice that not a single particle of water exits the inside

[TAP-A343]

Messerschmitt Man,

It seems that you cooled your head a bit. So I'll try to make my thoughts and believes even more clear on this topic.

The thread-starter and yourself started by saying that you hated the Pope.

I also hate the pope.

"Hate"? What harm did he do to you? I assume that you "hate" him just because you have a different opinion. I think this is not acceptable. It's intolerance and arrogance. Exactly what you are blaming Catholics and other Christians for.

Then I posted my opinion in an emphatic way, which I think I'm entitled to do since I believe that I didn't insult or offend anyone. I was careful enough to point out that it was just my opinion (meaning I was not trying to impose it on anyone).

Then you came up with this reply:

Are you for real? DING DING DING! Wake up call! we are just animals with animal instincts!

People will ALWAYS have sex out of marriage. People who have sex and are not certain with their partner's previous sexual activity must wear a condom, if they are used properly there is little chance S.T.D's will be passed on.

So forget about that catholic crap, this is the real world.

TAP-A343 are you related to Geroge Bush by any chance? It's just I see striking similarities in the low levels of common sense between you both.

I was taught by my parents that such an answer is plain rude. But I'll answer your questions anyway.

Are you for real?"

Absolutely, for the last 36 years I have been a Portuguese citizen and I'm proud of it. I have been living according to Catholic Church as best I can (except for going to church every Sunday in the last few years but I'm planning to get back soon) since my childhood and I don't regret it, on the contrary.

we are just animals with animal instincts!

Biologically you are just like any other mammal and yes, we have "animal instints", mating or having sex is one of them. However, there's a big difference between humans and animals. We are provided with intelligence and with the ability to choose what is good or bad. That's why we are accountable for our acts in the face of the law in a civilized society. That's why children under a certain age are not accountable before the law, they are considered not to have yet the ability to understand what is good or bad. The some happens to people who suffer from psychosis.

That's also why we can be accountable for our moral acts if we decide to belong to a religious group.

People will ALWAYS have sex out of marriage.

Everybody? Perhaps the majority will but how about the others? I know several people who don't.

People who have sex and are not certain with their partner's previous sexual activity must wear a condom, if they are used properly there is little chance S.T.D's will be passed on.

I agree completely with you. However, my opinion is that people should have only one sex partner in their lives. Irrealistic? For the majority of people I think so. But I belong to a "minority" by my own choice.

So forget about that catholic crap, this is the real world.

First you should respect other people's believes if you want that your own believes are also respected by others. Second the "real world" is not exactly as you perceive it. Nobody has 100% reliable and accessible information in this world. In many cases the information is very much distorted.

TAP-A343 are you related to Geroge Bush by any chance? It's just I see striking similarities in the low levels of common sense between you both.

Does the word "pathetic" come to your mind? As for moral issues I'm against the death penalty, he's not.

Originally Posted by TAP-A343
HIV/AIDS is a sexually transmitted disease therefore if people would follow the "traditional teaching of the Church" meaning no pre-marital sex, 100% fidelity during marriage nobody would get infected except through blood transfusions.

That infomation is just about as useful as me saying "if nobody ever drives a car there will never be any car accidents." And thats dead right just like your quote. HOWEVER; It's a fact of life that people will always drive a car, but minimising fatalities is possible through driver education (sex education) and a safe car (protection for sex).

You would be 100% correct if I had written "no sex at all". I just said "no pre-marital sex". But perhaps you're not married and that means "no sex at all" for you.

TAP-A343 In person and in other threads your probably a top bloke, but you seem to be misguided in this thread. I won't lose sleep over you not answering my post, you'd probably only go on to quote and agree with chrisburns comment on the "HIV virus being smaller than the meshing on the condom" On a side note it doesn't take a rocket scienctist to put a spoonfull of water in a condom, and to notice that not a single particle of water exits the inside

First, I don't consider myself top of anything. Some people like me some don't. Just like any ordinary person. Second, I'm not "misguided" in this thread and neither I think you are. We just have opposite opinions. Perhaps I have a better knowlegde of the Bible and Catholicism then you do according to your statements in this thread, but this topic is a rather simple in my opinion as for Catholic morality.

As for condoms I think they are safe, not 100% but probably close to it when handled correctly and of good quality, of course.

For all the other matters I would say this:

I don't understand why anybody would bother to listen to what Pope says.
What he says is only meant for Catholics. If they can follow fidelitly and abstinence, good for them, they don't need the Rubber.
But if they can't follow it, it means they have the freedom to use condoms, because they don't listen to first part, there is no point listening to the second regarding the Rubber.

Do you consider me an "extremist"?

Regards.

[wj_737_200]

If I had money, i'd start my own religion...church of Condoms and cheesecake. Free Condoms for all but the cheesecake would cost ya (if people were smart they'd take cheesecake over sex anyday, hell I know I would ) Can't someone drop rubbers from the sky, like they do with food supplies??? Although i'm willing to put money on the fact that most college kids have more condoms stashed away somewhere than the entire continent of Africa.

[screaming_emu]

If I had money, i'd start my own religion...church of Condoms and cheesecake. Free Condoms for all but the cheesecake would cost ya (if people were smart they'd take cheesecake over sex anyday, hell I know I would ) Can't someone drop rubbers from the sky, like they do with food supplies??? Although i'm willing to put money on the fact that most college kids have more condoms stashed away somewhere than the entire continent of Africa.

I'll join.

[Crunk415balla]

If I had money, i'd start my own religion...church of Condoms and cheesecake. Free Condoms for all but the cheesecake would cost ya (if people were smart they'd take cheesecake over sex anyday, hell I know I would ) Can't someone drop rubbers from the sky, like they do with food supplies??? Although i'm willing to put money on the fact that most college kids have more condoms stashed away somewhere than the entire continent of Africa.

How do I convert?

[pbateson]

I disagree thwe Pope that not using a condom. Condom is 100% safe and

without a condom is not 100% safe can spread AIDS/HIV.

[Crunk415balla]

I disagree thwe Pope that not using a condom. Condom is 100% safe and

without a condom is not 100% safe can spread AIDS/HIV.

uhhh....arn't condoms more like 80% safe?

[Flying High]

Let me make this clear to all of y'all:

THE POPE ISN'T FORCING ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING!!!

He's just laying the ground of Church dogma, which can be followed, or not. Have you heard about "free will"???

I, as a Catholic, am expected to follow Church doctrine on contraception, but whether I actually follow through, it's entirely up to me.

And for those who are not Catholic, don't get so worked up. After all, you're not liable for anything you do under the Church's eyes.

And for those who are, don't worry. No priest is gonna bang on your door, demanding access to your bedroom with a search warrant for condoms

[ACman]

I dont hate the pope and I dont care for bashing him because its his wacked idea and no one will listen to it. Let the man have his distorted idea because no one will agree with him if we are going to and want to fix this problum.