Thugs, Murderers, Rapists, et all, San Francisco soon to welome you with open arms!

[herpa2003]

In my opinion America needs to look into its gun laws more seriously like so many other things.

The States could learn a thing or two from New Zealand, I'm 20 and have never held a hand gun, they are not common here. I've only ever seen one once and it was on an Armed Defenders Squad member.

Civilians armed for protection is almost un-heard of in NZ, and is that such a bad thing? It's nice to be able to walk past someone on the street and know that they don't have the means to switch your life off with the push of a button essentially.

We would all love to be able to walk down the street at midnight in the poorest section of town and not have to worry about guns in the US, but the fact is that guns are here and they are here to stay. There is no getting rid of them. They will always continue to be on the street, and there is nothing we can do about that. So we, as law abiding citizens. should be able to own guns if we pass a background test.

For example-

Drugs are against the law. They are banned. But they are still a huge problem, one rampant in just about every city. Laws against drugs didn't make them go away, they just punished (rightfully) those caught using/dealing them.

For the same reasons, gun laws won't cause guns to go away.

[UFOSPACE99]

Why would you even need a gun in SFO? Only crazy people like you would go shoot Hippies and Gays because they are "different" You guys complain WAY more then Democrates and liberals. If you want to make a moral state based on religion go find some place else. Here in the US we have freedom. I want the freedom to marry anyone I want, have my (future) wife an abortion, have EVERYONE equal and be allowed to practice my religion and not be worriedd about it.
It is people like you who make the US have a bad name. Yes I don't agree with everyone (Like SWA733) but do I care? NO!!! That is another Freedom, Allowing to vote for whoever you want!! Being able to disagree. I don't want to be trapped in a bible and follow it!

Wow, such an enlightened post. Let's see where did I reference religion? And where did I say I had a problems with 'hippies or gays? I nominate this as the most incoherent, boderline literate post in this thread thus far! Classic response form a quasi-socialist. BTW, how old are you and did you have help with your post? If so you might want to have your helper get off the 'wacky weed' before replying to a thread.

Aldo

[wannabepilot777]

This, if passed, is a simple no brainer for the Supreme Court. There is this little thing called the 2nd amendment to the American Constitution. It is kinda hard to make laws that contradict the constitution and have them upheld.

[Messerschmitt Man]

There is no getting rid of them.

I agree.

What about though stopping hand gun ammunition production for civilian use? A hand gun is nothing more than a toy without ammunition.

Sure people would go underground and make Bullet's illegally, but their street value would be so high thugs would think twice before shooting grandma over her hand bag. Also home made bullets would be dangerous; some people wouldn’t risk using them at all.


100th post yessssssssss

[screaming_emu]

While I do think people who think they need to own a gun because its thier god given right are friggin idiots, it is their right. The problem with this country's violent crime isn't that guns are so easily accessable, its a problem of lack of education, large gap between the rich and the poor, and arrogance by those who commit these crimes (thinking they have the right to take somebody's life). If guns weren't easily accessable, they'd just turn to something else. Banning guns wont do a damn thing.

[avro_arrow_25206]

The problem with this country's violent crime isn't that guns are so easily accessable, its a problem of lack of education, large gap between the rich and the poor, and arrogance by those who commit these crimes (thinking they have the right to take somebody's life). If guns weren't easily accessable, they'd just turn to something else. Banning guns wont do a damn thing.

You can blame the media for at least some of this... at least it was them who made "gangsta" cool

[screaming_emu]

You can blame the media for at least some of this... at least it was them who made "gangsta" cool

yup

[expoITHscohen]

You contradict yourself here. Everyone should be equal, sure, and that includes your future wife's unborn child. No sense killing an innocent human being because your (future) wife doesn't want to deal with it. That is why adoption is available...

Since when is an Embryo a baby??? In my religion (Judiasm) a life doesn't start till birth. Why is yours right and not mine?

Answer that and I'll give you a cookie.

The problem with the whole Gay issue and Abortion issue is this. Go ahead and incoperate religion into this. Aslong as you incorparate ALL of them it should work out.

[Messerschmitt Man]

Since when is an Embryo a baby??? In my religion (Judiasm) a life doesn't start till birth. Why is yours right and not mine?

Good call, that's exactly right.

An aborted embryo is none the wiser, no one can remember anything pre birth or for the first few years of life for that matter.

It would be cruel to the child if an unplanned teenage pregnancy was made to be followed through, likewise for anyone not fit to be a parent.

[indian airlines]

your future wife's unborn child. No sense killing an innocent human being

It's not necessarily a human being, but we've been through this a brazillion times before anyway.

[wannabepilot777]

While I do think people who think they need to own a gun because its thier god given right are friggin idiots, it is their right. The problem with this country's violent crime isn't that guns are so easily accessable, its a problem of lack of education, large gap between the rich and the poor, and arrogance by those who commit these crimes (thinking they have the right to take somebody's life). If guns weren't easily accessable, they'd just turn to something else. Banning guns wont do a damn thing.

Its not God given, its American born. However, you are right to say that, in America, we have every right to carry a gun if we follow the rules for doing so. You also hit the nail on the head when you say that the problem is not the gun, but rather poverty. If we can get more wealth and prosparity to our poor, hunger goes down, violence and crime go down and many other problems simply shirnk or go away altogether. Now, how do we do it?

[screaming_emu]

Its not God given, its American born. However, you are right to say that, in America, we have every right to carry a gun if we follow the rules for doing so. You also hit the nail on the head when you say that the problem is not the gun, but rather poverty. If we can get more wealth and prosparity to our poor, hunger goes down, violence and crime go down and many other problems simply shirnk or go away altogether. Now, how do we do it?

Whoever gave the right doesn't change my opinion that I dont ever need to own or shoot a gun, but again that's my choice.

Anyway I think the first step is to make it so that schools are as hard here as they are in other places in the world. Every year it seems I read an article that talks about us fallying further and further back in education when compared to other countries around the world. Second step is probably figure out a way to get people who are "trapped" in the inner city by poverty or what not, somewhere else where it is easier for them to get a good education, a decent job, etc. The best way to do that, I'm not entirely sure, but that's the beginning of what has to happen.

[AC_A340-500]

First of all, let me say that anti-gun laws are the equivalent of laws saying it is illegal to get the flu.

I agree. Hard to stop people from owning them.

A law won't stop gun crimes from happening.

No, but I think they're hoping for a reduction in gun-related incidents.

Think about this- How many criminals walking around on the street are going to go through a background check and pay top dollar just so they can be told that they will be unable to purchase a gun, or even worse to purchase the gun and then be recorded as owning that gun? None.

True to a point. Certainly in the short-term, gun laws only disarm innocent people. In the same way that door locks only keep honest people out of your house. But I do believe, that in the mid to long term, gun related incidents will drop if there is gun control, all else being equal.

...us law abiding citizens to buy guns in order to defend outselves from those who don't do it through the system! We need to be able to protect ourselves.

I truly mean this:
I feel very, very sorry (not in a sarcastic way), for those who feel that they need to take such measures for protection. Thank God I live where I do. Thank God my environment has never given me a reason to feel threatened. Heck, I leave my doors unlocked half the time. Maybe I would feel the need for protection, if I lived in a "warzone". To me, in my environment, the need for protection in the form of a gun, is unfathomable.

I am in favor of background checks and bans on assault weapons

It's a good place to start.

Everyone should be equal, sure, and that includes your future wife's unborn child. No sense killing an innocent human being because your (future) wife doesn't want to deal with it. That is why adoption is available...

I agree, 100%. It's about respecting human life, and living up to one's responsibilities in life. Mind you, the same respect for human life should also translate into not starting wars under false pretense (I'm not trying to single out countries here, even if it may seem that way). But that's material for a different thread.

Yes. And freedom includes the RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS!!

There is a significant problem with the term "right to bear arms". In my opinion, the (semantically ambiguous) constitutions in many countries need to be revised and clarified. Technically, "arms" are any sort of weapon. I could write a whole page on the types of weapons that could be classified as "arms". So where should the line be drawn, even if it's only to include "firearms"? For some it's clear that assault weapons shouldn't be included in "the right to bear arms". For others, assault weapons clearly do fit the description. It should be obvious that the statement "right to bear arms" is vague at best, and in dire need of clarification (rethinking). That's why it surprises me so, that (even intelligent, educated) people so desperately try to uphold, and swear by "the right to bear arms". It seems as though a(n) (over)fixation on perceived freedom eclipses the need to critically examine the semantics of "the right to bear arms".

And the freedom to own a firearm...Freedom, you said it yourself. You can't deny us our freedom because you don't agree with it.

Again, perceived freedom eclipsing a willingness to reason. It seems as though the constitution is embraced dogmatically (by some). What about the "freedom" to question the content of the constitution?

.

[herpa2003]

Since when is an Embryo a baby??? In my religion (Judiasm) a life doesn't start till birth. Why is yours right and not mine?

Answer that and I'll give you a cookie.

The problem with the whole Gay issue and Abortion issue is this. Go ahead and incoperate religion into this. Aslong as you incorparate ALL of them it should work out.

I disagree with you here, but as others have said that is a matter for a different thread...

I agree.

What about though stopping hand gun ammunition production for civilian use? A hand gun is nothing more than a toy without ammunition.

Sure people would go underground and make Bullet's illegally, but their street value would be so high thugs would think twice before shooting grandma over her hand bag. Also home made bullets would be dangerous; some people wouldn’t risk using them at all.

That is a great idea, I think it merits further study from those in charge...

I truly mean this:
I feel very, very sorry (not in a sarcastic way), for those who feel that they need to take such measures for protection. Thank God I live where I do. Thank God my environment has never given me a reason to feel threatened. Heck, I leave my doors unlocked half the time. Maybe I would feel the need for protection, if I lived in a "warzone". To me, in my environment, the need for protection in the form of a gun, is unfathomable.

I feel sorry for them as well, and I am grateful that I live where I do. However, my concern is over those unfortunate enough to be defenseless and who live in poor areas. I strongly believe that the 79 year old grandmother living alone in a high crime area of a big city because that is all she can afford needs a gun to protect herself from people that would take advantage of her. Same thing with old men and young women.

There is a significant problem with the term "right to bear arms". In my opinion, the (semantically ambiguous) constitutions in many countries need to be revised and clarified. Technically, "arms" are any sort of weapon. I could write a whole page on the types of weapons that could be classified as "arms". So where should the line be drawn, even if it's only to include "firearms"? For some it's clear that assault weapons shouldn't be included in "the right to bear arms". For others, assault weapons clearly do fit the description. It should be obvious that the statement "right to bear arms" is vague at best, and in dire need of clarification (rethinking). That's why it surprises me so, that (even intelligent, educated) people so desperately try to uphold, and swear by "the right to bear arms". It seems as though a(n) (over)fixation on perceived freedom eclipses the need to critically examine the semantics of "the right to bear arms".

Agree. The second ammendment needs further defining, but I think it needs to stay for reasons that I have already gone over.

[YWGJoe]

It is called "a Right". Check our Constitution.

Hmm, shall we include the right to get shot if you sneeze at the wrong person the wrong way then? How about the right to live in the world's most gun-crazy country, where over 30,000 people die every year due to firearms-related incidents. You can have those 'rights' too. The right to bear arms is just insane...more people die from guns every year in the USA than in pretty much any other country...and yet they're still embraced as heaven-sent. Kinda makes me shake my head...