Bush&Co at it again: another anti-gay marriage amendment proposed

[ConcordeBoy]

Yes, but isn't this stuff dumbing down America?

Yes

I do wish the average American was more intelligent.

why?

I can mind my own business, but like I mentioned early, stop trying to shove it down my throat with the Gay Pride crap everywhere....

If I put a "Straight" sticker on my car I'd get crap for it, but got forbid we have to see all the rainbow stickers.

But as you already know, that's the way of our world though:
'The Majority', in any aspect, can never show "pride" in anything, lest they be viewed as oppressors.

E.g.: if you're an NAACP member, you're a cultural activist.... but if you're an NAAWP member, you're a racist.

Same sh!t, different bull.

That's an aspect of Western society which really has no specific tie to this subject per se.

All this no-gay marrige crap does is show hate.

See, my biggest problem with that bill was that its creators (though interestingly enough, not its supporters) refused to reveal its true face... which was specifically to outlaw any possibility of gay marriage.

Don't call it some bullcrap "marriage protection".... because if THAT was TRULY their intent (as has been mentioned here earlier), then they'd first outlaw divorce, which destroys MILLIONS more marriages than any homos ever have or will!

[Crunk415balla]

Can someone who is against gay marriage, please tell me how two people of the same gender being married affects them at all?

Thats my main question in this whole issue. As I said in my last post, if I am unaffected when a gay couple is married a few miles away in San Francisco, how is someone affected all the way on the other side of the country by it?

[screaming_emu]

the only time I would be against gay marriage is if it was manditory. Until then, it doesn't affect me in any way, shape, or form. If that makes people happy, let 'em do it. Can someone who is against gay marriage, please tell me how two people of the same gender being married affects them at all?

[eagle334]

I can deal with the homosexuality thing, I just can't live with the fact some people prefer Airbus over Boeing. That just gives me the willys.

[ACman]

The one great thing about a democracy is the ability to talk and agree or disagree. I would say my opinions on the issue when I was 18 would have been closer to ATLcentre, however as I have aged (I just turned 50) I find that people are people regardless of the sexual orientation.

If you work with or have gay/lesbian people near you the only thing you should be concerned with is "are they doing their damn job". Gay and lesbians are the same as you, they have feelings, they have dreams, they have aspirations. Should they be happy as a hetrosexual couple...yes. I'm fortunate to work for a company that treats all employees and their partners equally. And I don't have a problem with that.

The one comment is do disagree with is the one where ATLcentre states; " I (sic) don't believe sexual orientation is determined through genetics even though there is "scientific evidence" that supports it." Sexual orientation is not "learned", you are born that way. Maybe because I have employees reporting to me and friends who are gay I don't understand why there is a fuss. Stephen Harper (Canada's PM) needs a kick in the ass for bringing this issue back to Parliament. We don't go around taking rights away from people based on skin colour or religious background, why are we discriminating against poele who have a different sexual orientation?

Wow, everyone, and I mean EVERYONE should read this. It makes the most sense here.

We are all people, black, white, brown, whatever were people. Thats what most of us have been tought since grade primary (kindergarden). Now, what everyone needs to be tought is strait, gay, lesbien, bisexual, and trans-gender are people too and they have to have rights, they were born here, so tney follow under the charter of rights (in Canada, not sure what it is in the US). All this no-gay marrige crap does is show hate. Hate then boild down to not being educated. If we were all educated on gay, lesbien, bisexual, and trans-gender people, we wouldent have as many problems as we do with this. I say there might be another movement in the US.

[JordanD]

are you trying to play on the words

stop trying to shove it down my throat

Hehehe that's an even worse play on words.
I can't recall a time that I was forced to sit and watch a gay pride parade, and I doubt you ever were either. If I don't want to see somebody's gay rainbow sticker thing (i don't know what the hell it's called lol), then I don't look at it, but it doesn't offend me.

[Top_Gun]

I say people need to suck it up

are you trying to play on the words

I can mind my own business, but like I mentioned early, stop trying to shove it down my throat with the Gay Pride crap everywhere....

If I put a "Straight" sticker on my car I'd get crap for it, but got forbid we have to see all the rainbow stickers.

[JordanD]

I say people need to suck it up and mind their own business for once.
BTW nice 10 cents crunk415balla.

[ptbodale]

The one great thing about a democracy is the ability to talk and agree or disagree. I would say my opinions on the issue when I was 18 would have been closer to ATLcentre, however as I have aged (I just turned 50) I find that people are people regardless of the sexual orientation.

If you work with or have gay/lesbian people near you the only thing you should be concerned with is "are they doing their damn job". Gay and lesbians are the same as you, they have feelings, they have dreams, they have aspirations. Should they be happy as a hetrosexual couple...yes. I'm fortunate to work for a company that treats all employees and their partners equally. And I don't have a problem with that.

The one comment is do disagree with is the one where ATLcentre states; " I (sic) don't believe sexual orientation is determined through genetics even though there is "scientific evidence" that supports it." Sexual orientation is not "learned", you are born that way. Maybe because I have employees reporting to me and friends who are gay I don't understand why there is a fuss. Stephen Harper (Canada's PM) needs a kick in the ass for bringing this issue back to Parliament. We don't go around taking rights away from people based on skin colour or religious background, why are we discriminating against people who have a different sexual orientation?

[ATLcenter]

Simple-- comparitive analysis of how the LCD (i.e., single mom-- also notice that I never said anything about a deadbeat in either situation) is actually in an advantageous position compared to those who could be better equipped for the task in nearly every criterion.

I'll show my true colors and admit defeat on this point- gay people do seem to net more income on average.

Agreed, and sadly, it's going to be that way until our generation is in power, and those who grew up under Jim Crowe (something we thankfully never had to experience, and are thus capable of forgiving the events of that era) are dead.

DeKalb County bussed students until the 1996 Olympics. Our generation has indeed caught the tail end of the racism, and from the looks of it, I question whether our generation will more capable than the previous one. Let's start fixing things.

No one here claims you do:
the general question is, what gives your social comfort standards priority over mine?

That's all.

...I dare ya to say "tradition". Go ahead, say it

I won't. Marriage may be more traditional, but so was slavery, segregation, and asbestos. Tradition is not always right, but it takes time. My social comfort standards take as weight per unit as yours. But since there are far more straight people than gay people, the gay population must be vocal to get their rights. I suppose pushing for equality forces many of us outside our comfort bubble.

that's where prudent parenting comes into play


so 'you' as a parent turn off the damn TV when something you don't want them watching is on; and let MTV etc continue spewing their mindless crap under the 1st Amendment. Everybody wins.

Yes, but isn't this stuff dumbing down America? I don't advocate censorship, but I do wish the average American was more intelligent. I went to Savannah this past week and the woman at the counter as 6 different people what 21x5 is. No one knew, so she used a calculator. That's revolting and I expect more out of our education system.

Get real, who the hell wants/wanted to be gay?

Time for a new thread?

which, as an American, is of course your prerogative to be.... but it should also not affect me, and those I love, in the least.

No, of course not. I wish we could skip the fight and get straight to the civil union-rights part. The world messes everything up.

[ConcordeBoy]

What makes it all right to pit a deadbeat mom against two dual income women?

Simple-- comparitive analysis of how the LCD (i.e., single mom-- also notice that I never said anything about a deadbeat in either situation) is actually in an advantageous position compared to those who could be better equipped for the task in nearly every criterion.

And ATL is a very messed up place- we've been down this road before. I'm very thankful I don't live in the city, but the Black Powerhouse here is corrupt, socialist, and filled rank and file with loons who do nothing but talk about how massa still holds down 'dem boys after 150 years.

Agreed, and sadly, it's going to be that way until our generation is in power, and those who grew up under Jim Crowe (something we thankfully never had to experience, and are thus capable of forgiving the events of that era) are dead.

Look, man. I have no problem with homosexuality.

No one here claims you do:
the general question is, what gives your social comfort standards priority over mine?

That's all.

...I dare ya to say "tradition". Go ahead, say it

Our society works so hard to rob children from thier youthful innocence as early as possible.

that's where prudent parenting comes into play

Turn on the TV and watch MTV, CSI, etc. I hate that we're bombarded with sex and I hate that people nowadays trumpet their preferences.

so 'you' as a parent turn off the damn TV when something you don't want them watching is on; and let MTV etc continue spewing their mindless crap under the 1st Amendment. Everybody wins.

You want to be gay

Get real, who the hell wants/wanted to be gay?

then go for it.

I'll make the best of it, thanks

I guess when you boil down to it, I'm more against the gay rights fight than gay rights themselves.

which, as an American, is of course your prerogative to be.... but it should also not affect me, and those I love, in the least.

[ATLcenter]

No offense dude, as I say this as kindly as I can muster, but to summarize it:
why the hell should I and my partner be denied basic American rights which heavily affect matters of life and death (fiscal, custody, succession, medical decisions, etc) that we'll possibly have to face in our lives... because you're concerned whether or not you make a vocal faux pas?

Yes, I understand you're now just barely an adult and (obviously) haven't quite yet mastered the art of perspective... but dang, that was one of the most idiotic rationales I've EVER born witness too. Yikes!

First, quoting me out of context is a good one. I believe all those benefits should be given to homosexual couples, but I have difficulty calling it a marriage. I have no problems with civil unions that provide homosexual couples the same perks as married couples. So yes, under my beliefs you do have rights to the aforementioned benefits.

And what basic rights? You (and (, for that matter) don't have a right to marry or anything legally. You'd be surprised how few rights any of us have, but that's another topic.

...and if 'you' had neither, where then would 'you' be?

In society as we know it, there's undeniable psychological evidence that children do best with a mother-father situation at home. Too bad there's a wholeeeeeee lotta young'uns who don't/won't/never have that.

True, it's very sad that millions of children live without both parents.

So tell me, you're going to suggest that a single-parent or no parent upbringing is better than the sum of two loving and providing parents (in this case of the same gender)?

No, I'm not going to say that. I never did.

Or that it's perfectly fine/legal/dandy that a single chick with a single income, and singular presence; can walk into a clinic, tango with a turkey baster, and walk out ready for an 18yr committment where the child is automatically going to be denied half of its parental contribution in every aspect...... yet should TWO ladies; together with dual income, dual presence, a stabilized support system for each other, and perhaps much more life experience; attempt the same thing--- then woe be the state of the world??? Get real.

What makes it all right to pit a deadbeat mom against two dual income women? Why not two deadbeat women against a well-off mom? Oh wait, that's not 'right', is it? You just said children are better off in a traditional marriage. I understand you're biased with this whole matter since you're gay, but seriously.


And ATL is a very messed up place- we've been down this road before. I'm very thankful I don't live in the city, but the Black Powerhouse here is corrupt, socialist, and filled rank and file with loons who do nothing but talk about how massa still holds down 'dem boys after 150 years.

Look, man. I have no problem with homosexuality. I jsut don't want to live in a world where sexual orientation is shoved down your throat from age 6. I resent that schools in Massachusetts have to talk about "special" people to a second grade class. Our society works so hard to rob children from thier youthful innocence as early as possible. Turn on the TV and watch MTV, CSI, etc. I hate that we're bombarded with sex and I hate that people nowadays trumpet their preferences. You want to be gay, then go for it. Just stop parading down the streets of California and talking to kids that ought to be looking for frogs in a creek about your sexual orientation. That applies for both straight and gay couples. I'm quite liberal to be honest, and I'm okay with a plethora of things. I used to wonder how in hell anyone could be against gay marriage and gay adoption. But I thought about it and I don't like where it's taking the society I live and function in. It's not always about your right and your wants. I don't want gay pride marches, you want to marry your love and have kids. It's a pity neither of us will get what we want, and that's what I'm so fed up with. I guess when you boil down to it, I'm more against the gay rights fight than gay rights themselves.

This argument would be so much easier face to face.

[ConcordeBoy]

100% agree. I don't want to talk to a guy on the train, notice a ring, and ask about a wife to realize he's married to another guy.

No offense dude, as I say this as kindly as I can muster, but to summarize it:
why the hell should I and my partner be denied basic American rights which heavily affect matters of life and death (fiscal, custody, succession, medical decisions, etc) that we'll possibly have to face in our lives... because you're concerned whether or not you make a vocal faux pas?

Yes, I understand you're now just barely an adult and (obviously) haven't quite yet mastered the art of perspective... but dang, that was one of the most idiotic rationales I've EVER born witness too. Yikes!

If I had two "mothers" I could never talk to them about sex. You need a father or male guardian to do those things.

...and if 'you' had neither, where then would 'you' be?

In society as we know it, there's undeniable psychological evidence that children do best with a mother-father situation at home. Too bad there's a wholeeeeeee lotta young'uns who don't/won't/never have that.



So tell me, you're going to suggest that a single-parent or no parent upbringing is better than the sum of two loving and providing parents (in this case of the same gender)?

Or that it's perfectly fine/legal/dandy that a single chick with a single income, and singular presence; can walk into a clinic, tango with a turkey baster, and walk out ready for an 18yr committment where the child is automatically going to be denied half of its parental contribution in every aspect...... yet should TWO ladies; together with dual income, dual presence, a stabilized support system for each other, and perhaps much more life experience; attempt the same thing--- then woe be the state of the world??? Get real.


And to finish it off, one more thing--- and I almost dread taking it here:

You're in Atlanta, so you're no doubt used to having Black versus White bullsh!t crammed down your throat by so-called self-appointed "Black leaders" from sunrise to sunset. Most of them passionately decry any attempt to equate the struggle of Gay rights to 1960s-era Civil Rights....

...yet mighty funny how you'll NEVER get a rebuttal out of ANY of them; should you mention the droll little observation of how every (now proven-false) argument used against interracial marriage and interracial adoption; is now being recycled and thrown against gay marriage/adoption as well.

Ever stopped to think about why they're so "mysteriously" tongue-tied on this particular issue? ...the likes of Sharpton, Jackson, etc aren't exactly known for their silence.

[Crunk415balla]

...I'd say your banner sums it up better than anything else.

I agree. I mean we all have a friend, a relative, or know someone who is gay. They have a hard enough time living here with stuff like this going on, the least we can do is give them the same rights we have. It doesn't effect me when a random gay couple is married in San Francisco just a few miles away, so I don't know how it effects people on the other side of the country. Although many of our country's principals are based on the bible, we don't have to force it upon everyone word for word. That was the situation in the "Dark Ages", and well, it wasn't a very good situation. Hense the name "Dark Ages". The way I see it, despite what I hear people say, this is just like the Civil Rights Movements we had for women and blacks. They arn't asking for "special treatment", they're asking for "equal treatment".

We still have sexists who belive women shouldn't be in the work force. Do we keep them out of the work force just so they will feel more comfortable? No. We still have racists here who think America should be white, and everyone else should go back to their country and be treated like crap here. Do we submit to them by sending everyone of a diffrent background back to their country? No. Then tell me, if we had the sense to move forward, and we are correcting all the injustice's in our country brought on by prejudice, why have we suddenly stopped and decided the gays don't get all their rights?

Just my 10 cents.

[ATLcenter]

I'm with you on everything till this last paragraph. The problem with this issue being state run is that if a couple say gets married in MA or VT, it's not recognized in states that don't believe in it like NH. I believe there was a problem with 2 guys from Vt that wanted to get "divorced" but no longer lived in Vt. I want to say they moved to NM which doesn't recognize gay marriage. You have to live in VT or those state for a year before you can get divorced

There's a price to pay for everything. I would love to have decent leadership and a government that reflects my interests and opinions, but I don't get that. I deal with it and manage. I don't think it's discriminatory to make people live in districts that give them the freedom they feel they're entitled to. Naturally, some freedoms must be universal. However, people mustn't assume the world is theirs for the taking because it isn't.

I'm all for gay unions and giving them full benifits, just don't call it a marriage. If the Gay/Lesbians are having divorce/Custody issues. I heard of a couple who had a child together, and the non-birthing mother want's parental rights.

100% agree. I don't want to talk to a guy on the train, notice a ring, and ask about a wife to realize he's married to another guy. It complicates things and opens a whole new can of worms. And I have serious problems with homosexual couples adopting children. I don't think a child growing up with gay parents will surely become gay, but I don't think growing up without the influence of one gender is conducive to learning life's lessons. If I had two "mothers" I could never talk to them about sex. You need a father or male guardian to do those things.

Why is it all or nothing when it comes to the "Gay Pride" down your throat. In Boston, they are now going after Maci's because they had a Gay Manican in the front window. When they received all these complaints from the Non-gays, they took it out, then the Gays came out complaining about removing it. If you want gay window shopping, go to Provincetown where it's expected and a place I would never question rights or window displays.

And again, I agree. It's just like white pride marches. It's okay to throw a great ball celebrating Black advancements, but recognizing white advancement is immediately branded as racist, bigoted, and backward. I'm brown and I'll admit it- I have little problem with White Pride people so long as they don't feel superior to others. I hate it when I'm homophobic becauase I'm as candid about my sexuality as gay people are about theirs. THere is a time and place for everything- some people just need to catch on.