Create your own airline (Imagination)

[MaxPower]

Air Astana - No info

Most of their fleet is leased, IIRC, though I honestly don't know too much about them either.

They have three 737's, 2 -700's and 1 -800 plus they have a single A320 , Ex Volare airlines and Hellas Jet. I think the plane was leased from CIT Aerospace group from the beginning of this A320's life.

[DAL767-400ER]

First, please drop ur and u, this isnt MSN or AIM.

Yuz a prob wit dat ?

Heres the hard and fast rule of airline fleet managment. Commonality. Having planes that are similar and common aswell as common engine types (such as majority GE, RR or PW) will substainitally lower operating costs.

Contratry to internet believe, commonality isn't everything. Sure it is always nice to have a simple fleet, but there are always instances where you might be in the need for a plane from another manufacturer, either because yours doesn't have the plane you desire at all, or because it can't be delivered fast enough.

Simply put, it is cheeper to operate a A320 and A330 family fleet than a 737NG and 767 family fleet.

Just commonality-wise, yes, but there are other factors that can prove your thesis to be the exact opposite, for example employee costs.

Third, many airlines that operate these fleets of both is because of one of two contributing factors.

A)Merger

B)Lease/passdown

Way to oversimplify things.

Air Berlin - has around 6 to 7 times more 737NG's than that of the A320 family, I belive the A320 family came in because of a merger.

No merger at all, AB just doesn't want to be dependant on just one manufacturer.

Hainan Airlines - They only operate 9 319's compared to the 36 737's

As is the case with all other Chinese airlines, it's all just politics - China order 150 737s, so they will also order 150 A320s. They get 50 787s, they'll also get 50 A330s. Just politics.

Lauda Air - NG only operates 2 A320's, and they were passed down or leased by Austrian

Lauda Air is part of Austrian, there's no difference between the two anymore. And they operate both planes because according to them they fit into different operational profiles.

SAS - They operate a very small number (9) of the A320 family

And? It's still both families.

South African Airways - All of there A320's were sold to TAM in 2000 and 2001. Plus they only operate 11 319's.

That was only the first time they sold their A320s. SAA is more a case of very bad management. Eons ago, they decided on the A320 as a 732 replacement. In the end, those two operated side-by-side. So management thought "We're keeping the 732s anyway, might as well operate 738s then instead of A320s". So they bought 738s and sold the A320s. But before all 738s could even arrive, a new management came, and with it the thought that previous management agreed to a too high price with Boeing on the 737, so new management decided to get SAA in a cheaper deal from Airbus, so that all A320s would be used to replace the 738s. But here we are, with slight management changes again, and now have A320s operating alongside 738s and A319s alongside 732s.

Air Astana - No info

Most of their fleet is leased, IIRC, though I honestly don't know too much about them either.

Livingston - They only operate one 738

So? Given their small fleet, that is a rather large percentage of the total .

Lufthansa - There 737's are slowly being replaced by 320's and 319's. They operate one 737-700 but its a BBJ, and its Privatair

Believe it or not, the 737s are here to stay for the foreseeable future. They might be older than the A320s, but they are ideal for LH's increasing non-hub point-to-point focus, primarily from HAM. Plus, there is no suitable 735 replacement, because in LH's eyes the A318 is simply too heavy and inefficient, and they are not keen on the E-Jets either.

Royal Air Maroc - They operate 2 A321's

Simple, back when RAM wanted a plane in that seat capacity area, the 739 wasn't an option for them (refer to my point about sortiments complimenting each other).

All Nippon Airways - They operate a small number of 737's (like 10)

Which is ever-growing, because the 737NG will be their mainstay and the A320s are on their way out. Ironically, because the A320s are leaving than the 73Gs are arriving, ANA is leasing brand-new A320s from Airbus as a stop gap measure - talk about illogical fleet management.

Turkish Airlines - No info

As with China, just politics.

And as an example of my own, Easyjet, with both 73Gs and A319s, dual fleet for 2 reasons:
First, Boeing didn't want to make as low of an offer as Airbus, and didn't want to add dual overwing exits on the 73G for just one customer, and second, EZY has such large fleets of both planes that commonality has become irrelevant. Same will soon apply to AB as well.

See, most airlines that operate both (excluding China) have more of one, and less of the other. If they do operate both, Its like I said, either because of a merger or a lease.

As proven above, that's simply not the case.

Im going to be blunt, it is a bad move. Why? Money. Would you like to piss away money at having a PC and a Mac? Having to train people in your family on both, having people who will opnly use mac and only use PC, having to buy programs for both, having to have two different people fix it. Thats not smart, a lot of money and time wasted when you could just have one.

As said before, once a fleet reaches a certain size, commonality becomes less of an issue.

A)Possibly the most important thing: Multi-rate the pilots so they can fly the A319 and A320 or 737-700 and 737-800 (depending on fleet choice). You cant train pilots on both aircraft and have them show up to fly the A320 one day and the 737 the next.

As said, once a fleet reaches a certain size, it doesn't really matter anymore, because you'll need a boatload of pilots for either fleet anyway.

B)Crew shifting: Oh? I cant send Bob and Dave to do that route cause they fly the 737 and not the A320, guess we have a problem! Easier to shift crews around if you only operate one family of aircraft.

See directly above.

C)Operating costs: more expensive to train pilots on both instead of one.

See above.

D)Maintenance: Cost more to have mechanics on both types instead of just one.

Again, you'll need the mechanics anyway. Besides, if your airline where to do maintenance for other airlines, it increases business opportunities when you can fix both bestsellers.

Plus there is probably a helluva lot more reasons. It just boggles my mind why people think having both in the fleet is "ok". It DOESNT MAKE SENSE!

Because, as has been, IT ACTUALLY DOES MAKE SENSE giving certain circumstances.
Also figure this example:
You are a current 73G operator, and more than happy with your performance. You need more capacity, but Boeing doesn't have delivery slots available as soon as you want, and due to the huge demand, they have also increased prices a bit. So in comes Airbus, with the delivery slots you want, at rock-bottom prices, albeit with a slightly worse fuel burn. Seriously, would you ignore that offer because you already have 150 73Gs in your fleet? Hells no, you would take up Airbus' offer asap, and decide its more efficient to now operate 150 A319s alongside those 73Gs, than waiting for additional 73Gs later.

I could go on and on about this crap.

And you still would not be convincing.

ps: If this isn't "Aviation Discussion", I don't know what is .

[ACman]

Air Berlin - A319, A320, B737, B738
Hainan Airlines - A319, B737, B738
Lauda Air - A320, B736, B737, B738
Shenzen Air - A319, A320, B737, B738, B739
China Eastern Airlines - A319, A320, A321, B737, B738
Oman Air - A320, B737, B738
SAS - A319, A321, B736, B737, B738
Pegasus Airlines - A320, B738
Air China - A319, A320, B736, B737, B738
South African Airways - A319, A320, B738
Air Astana - A320, B737, B738
Livingston - A321, B738
Lufthansa - A319, A320, A321, B737
China Southern Airlines - A319, A320, A321, B737, B738
Royal Air Maroc - A321, B737, B738
All Nippon Airways - A320, A321, B737
Turkish Airlines - A319, A320, A321, B738

Happy?

Those look like pretty big airlines to me..

Having both A32Xs and B737NGs on ur fleet is not a bad move.. Although they may look like they have a lot of similarities, there are distinct differences that may cater to the different needs of airlines..

IF u need more explanation, call these airlines and ask them why they got both families..

Aight??? PEACE

First, please drop ur and u, this isnt MSN or AIM.

Heres the hard and fast rule of airline fleet managment. Commonality. Having planes that are similar and common aswell as common engine types (such as majority GE, RR or PW) will substainitally lower operating costs. Simply put, it is cheeper to operate a A320 and A330 family fleet than a 737NG and 767 family fleet.

Third, many airlines that operate these fleets of both is because of one of two contributing factors.

A)Merger

B)Lease/passdown

Here is the number of aircraft in each of the airlines fleets you mentioned.

Air Berlin - has around 6 to 7 times more 737NG's than that of the A320 family, I belive the A320 family came in because of a merger.

Hainan Airlines - They only operate 9 319's compared to the 36 737's

Lauda Air - NG only operates 2 A320's, and they were passed down or leased by Austrian

Shenzen Air - Cant find the info

China Eastern Airlines - With this airline, I dont know WTF is going on, there whole fleet is facked up.

Oman Air - This airline does not operate A320's, they did and they were on lease contract.

SAS - They operate a very small number (9) of the A320 family

Pegasus Airlines - Their 320's were on lease too

Air China - Also their 320's on lease as well

South African Airways - All of there A320's were sold to TAM in 2000 and 2001. Plus they only operate 11 319's.

Air Astana - No info

Livingston - They only operate one 738

Lufthansa - There 737's are slowly being replaced by 320's and 319's. They operate one 737-700 but its a BBJ, and its Privatair

China Southern Airlines - Once again, there fleet is irratic

Royal Air Maroc - They operate 2 A321's

All Nippon Airways - They operate a small number of 737's (like 10)

Turkish Airlines - No info

See, most airlines that operate both (excluding China) have more of one, and less of the other. If they do operate both, Its like I said, either because of a merger or a lease.

Happy?

Im going to be blunt, it is a bad move. Why? Money. Would you like to piss away money at having a PC and a Mac? Having to train people in your family on both, having people who will opnly use mac and only use PC, having to buy programs for both, having to have two different people fix it. Thats not smart, a lot of money and time wasted when you could just have one.

Heres why having a totally common fleet is better than having an "irratic" (or in this case both the 737 and A320 in your fleet). Having just the A320 family or just the 737 family means...

A)Possibly the most important thing: Multi-rate the pilots so they can fly the A319 and A320 or 737-700 and 737-800 (depending on fleet choice). You cant train pilots on both aircraft and have them show up to fly the A320 one day and the 737 the next.

B)Crew shifting: Oh? I cant send Bob and Dave to do that route cause they fly the 737 and not the A320, guess we have a problem! Easier to shift crews around if you only operate one family of aircraft.

C)Operating costs: more expensive to train pilots on both instead of one.

D)Maintenance: Cost more to have mechanics on both types instead of just one.

Plus there is probably a helluva lot more reasons. It just boggles my mind why people think having both in the fleet is "ok". It DOESNT MAKE SENSE!

If you want to "cater" to the needs of an airline, then just buy up the entire family of one aircraft. There you go. Problem solved. But what if you want an all Y class and then another that is Y and J? Well than configure a few of them to that. Dont buy both planes and congire one to all pax and the rest to both classes. Not Smart, costly.

I could go on and on about this crap. Simply pick one, and fly it.

[flyingbosshog]

Btw Nice airline. Good to see you included MNL airport as your hub. Why exactly did you use MNL ? ICN or SIN would have been a better alternative if you asked me.

There was no real reason. I thought about SIN, but there is already such a high level of service there that I thought it might be better served by "my LCC"

[MaxPower]

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=5705620

Example - http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=5705620

Copy the numbers.

Insert them in a thumbnail code and it looks like this [photoid=xxxxx]

Cut the numbers and replace them where the x's are.--- ^^^^

[photoid=5705x620]

and you get this. [photoid=5705620]

Btw Nice airline. Good to see you included MNL airport as your hub. Why exactly did you use MNL ? ICN or SIN would have been a better alternative if you asked me.

[flyingbosshog]

I think they'd appreciate for the views if you linked their photos in this thread like this ?

[photoid=5746751]

[photoid=5789877]

[photoid=540412]

[photoid=5705620]

Every time I try that it does not work for me....

[MaxPower]

I think they'd appreciate for the views if you linked their photos in this thread like this ?

[photoid=5746751]

[photoid=5789877]

[photoid=540412]

[photoid=5705620]

[flyingbosshog]

GO International

US Domestic Fleet:
Regional:
Dash8-400Q
EMB-170LR

Medium Range:
737-700W
757-200WERs

Long Hauls:
767-300ER to be replaced by 787-8 series
777-200LR

US Hubs:
In the Western US SFO would be our western base of operations with select Pacific and South American destinations served directly from SFO. In the Central US DTW would serve as the Main US hub with International destinations going to Europe and Asia. In the East ATL would serve as the hub for operations to South America as well as certain direct European services.

ATL international routes:
ATL-LGW 772
ATL-CDG 772
ATL-AMS 767
ATL-MEX 737 757 767

DTW International routes:
DTW-NRT 772
DTW-AMS 763 AND 772
DTW-CDG 763
DTW-LGW 772
DTW-PEK 772
DTW-MNL 772
DTW-SVO 763
DTW-FCO 767
DTW-TXL 767
DTW-FRA 767

SFO International route:
SFO-PEK 772
SFO-MNL 772
SFO-NRT 772
SFO-MEX 737 757


Europe:
Short Haul (Low Cost):
ATR-72-500s
EMB-175LR

Medium Haul (Low Cost):
A319

Long Haul:
747-400ER to be replaced by the 747-800
777-200LR

My European Hub would be AMS. It would serve DTW and ATL in the US. The major focus of GO International's European operations would be low cost regional operation and Asian long hual operations. The Low Cost Operations would operate on a point to point route system. The only real "Hub" which would have service directly from every low cost city would again be AMS as it would be the hub for the International feeder routes. From the Low Cost feeder cities regional services will be offered to nearby smaller destinations.

AMS International Routes:
AMS-PEK 747
AMS-NRT 747 777
AMS-HKG 747 777
AMS-MNL 777
AMS-DTW Code Share With Go International America
AMS-ATL Code Share With Go International America
AMS-SFO 747

Low Cost Focus Cities:
FCO
TXL
LCY
ORY
BRU
SVO
BCN
ATH
DUB
EDI
ARN
OSL
ZRH
WAW

Asia

Regional:
EMB-170LR
Dash8-400Q

High Capacity Domestic:
747-400D
777-300ER

Medium:
757-200WER
737-700W
737-900ER

Long Haul:
777-200LR
747-400ER to be replaced by the 787-8

Asian Hub:
Asia would be similar to Europe in the idea that it will be a low cost operation with a Long Haul operation. The main hubs would be PEK, MNL, HKG, and NRT. Each would have links to each other through the low cost operation.


International Routes:

NRT-SFO Code Share With Go International America
NRT-LAX 772
NRT-ATL 772
NRT-DTW Code Share With Go International America
NRT-AMS Code Share With Go International Europe
HKG-AMS Code Share With Go International Europe
HKG-LAX 747
HKG-SFO 772
HKG-DTW772
MNL-SFO Code Share With Go International America
MNL-AMS Code Share With Go International Europe
MNL-DTW Code Share With Go International America
PEK-SFO Code Share With Go International America
PEK-DTW Code Share With Go International America
PEK-AMS Code Share With Go International Europe

Classes of Service.

Interntionally there will be three classes of service.
International Premiere:

For our international Premiere services we will feature the Go Sleeping Suite.



International Select:

For out international Buisiness passengers we will offer a comfortable working space with the privacy of a corner office:


>


International Economy Class:
For the average travellor we will offer one of the most generous economy classes know to man.



Domestic/ Low Cost

Business (US Only):
For our domestic US travellers we have two classes of service with the front of the plane configured with our US Elite seat:



Economy/ Low Cost:
For our Low Cost patrons, and US Economy We offer Leather seats with ample leg room:

[scramjet]

No one likes my airline

[MaxPower]

@ NWA 757 351.

I like you imagination. What made you prefer the IAEV2500 powered types ?

Looks good to me. Nice domestic airline.

[scramjet]

I used to make up airlines all the time when I was a kid.

[NWA 757 351]

The "paper airline" I've sorta worked on the last year or so is called "Air West".

The main hub is DEN, with secondary hubs in both SEA and LAX.

The fleet is as follows:

80x A319 with IAE V2524-A5
65x A320 " " V2527-A5
50x B752 " PW 2037 (25 5500 Series and 25 5600 Series)
40x E145XR



The route structure is entirely domestic concentrating in the western states with flights to major east coast and midwestern cities as well as Hawaii.Also, unlike the majority of the US carriers, complimentary full meals would be offered in both economy and first class on flights longer than 3.5 hours.

All the acft would have the fuselages and engine cowlings/wintip fences painted lime.

It's too bad the majority of the info got lost when my Mac died a couple months ago, otherwise I would of included more info.

[cx777]

Actually, no, None of the US Big-6 or any others that I know of operate both at the same time. Why? Cuase its dumb and un-economical. Its redundant. Doesnt make sense, you want to see high operating costs? Operate both at the same time. If an airline does operate both at the same time, it wont be long before one of them is gone.

Other than EasyJet and some charter airlines, please show me an airline that operates both the 737NG and A320 family of aircraft.

Air Berlin - A319, A320, B737, B738
Hainan Airlines - A319, B737, B738
Lauda Air - A320, B736, B737, B738
Shenzen Air - A319, A320, B737, B738, B739
China Eastern Airlines - A319, A320, A321, B737, B738
Oman Air - A320, B737, B738
SAS - A319, A321, B736, B737, B738
Pegasus Airlines - A320, B738
Air China - A319, A320, B736, B737, B738
South African Airways - A319, A320, B738
Air Astana - A320, B737, B738
Livingston - A321, B738
Lufthansa - A319, A320, A321, B737
China Southern Airlines - A319, A320, A321, B737, B738
Royal Air Maroc - A321, B737, B738
All Nippon Airways - A320, A321, B737
Turkish Airlines - A319, A320, A321, B738

Happy?

Those look like pretty big airlines to me..

Having both A32Xs and B737NGs on ur fleet is not a bad move.. Although they may look like they have a lot of similarities, there are distinct differences that may cater to the different needs of airlines..

IF u need more explanation, call these airlines and ask them why they got both families..

Aight??? PEACE

[scramjet]

Pittsburgh Airways

The concept of Pittsburgh Airways was floated before a group of Pittsburgh area businessmen and corporations during the late 1990s to provide a cheaper alternative to the then exorbitant fares charged by monopolistic US Airways in the Pittsburgh market and to provide more cost effective international service. The businessmen and corporations expressed interest and a holding group called Golden Triangle Transport Ventures, Incorporated was formed in January of 1999. The group launched its main subsidiary, Pittsburgh Airways, in February of 1999 completing carrier certification with two Airbus A320s. It placed an order for up to 100 A320 series aircraft and opted for an undetermined number of Boeing’s 777-300 and 747-400 aircraft for international service. The airline prospered in its first years by good customer service and cheap fares. The terror attacks and rising fuel prices a few years later would be a bump on an otherwise smooth road in its operations, but due to good management decisions, smart planning, and low operating costs, Pittsburgh Airways survived with only minimal losses in 2002, 2003, and 2004. Starting in 2005, the company again became profitable albeit nowhere as profitable as its initial years. It began shifting service to place more of a focus on slightly more profitable international and leisure routes. Today, with a fleet of over 100 aircraft and almost five thousand employees, Pittsburgh Airways is expanding and filling the gaps in service left by US Airways. It is considering opening a larger hub in Asia to cater to an expanding market there and expansion in Pittsburgh, indeed throughout the globe, is almost guaranteed. One thing is for certain, the future of Pittsburgh International Airport looks bright as the hub of a truly global airline.

Fleet

• 40 Boeing 777-300s
• 30 Boeing 747-400s
• 60 Airbus A320 (Airbus A319 and A321 cancelled)

Destinations

From Pittsburgh:
London, Rome, Frankfurt, Paris, Madrid, Milan, Athens, Glasgow, Dublin, Moscow, Munich, Toulouse, Zurich, Oslo, Stockholm, Brussels Tokyo, Osaka, Hong Kong, Shanghai, Beijing, New Delhi, Sydney, Dubai, Riyadh, Cairo, Nairobi, New York, Washington D.C., Chicago, Boston, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Houston, Detroit, Freeport, Cancun, Orlando, Miami, San Diego, Las Vegas, Seattle, Dallas, San Antonio, Phoenix, Atlanta, Denver, Honolulu, Anchorage, Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa, and Portland, Oregon

From Osaka:
Pittsburgh, London, Hong Kong, Shanghai, Beijing, New Delhi, Bankok, and Sydney

From New York-Kennedy:
Washington D.C., Chicago, Boston, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Houston, Detroit, Freeport, Cancun, Orlando, Miami, San Diego, Las Vegas, Seattle, Dallas, San Antonio, Phoenix, Atlanta, and Pittsburgh

From Las Vegas
London, Osaka, Hong Kong, New York, Washington D.C., Chicago, Boston, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Houston, Detroit, Atlanta, Denver, and Portland, Oregon


Plans for Expansion

Aircraft
Pittsburgh Airways has purchased options for the Boeing 787-8 and the Airbus A380. It continues to receive Boeing 777-300s.

Route Structure
Pittsburgh Airways is tentatively considering adding more United States destinations perhaps through a feeder service agreement creating a regional service. It is considering creating a new domestic hub in Las Vegas (upgrading it from a focus city) and expanding its focus city in Osaka. It is considering a buyout of a major Hong Kong based airline.

Airport Infrastructure-PIT
Pittsburgh Airways has agreed to finance in part the second “X” terminal proposed in the 1990s as part of its expansion plans. It will finance in whole a $1 billion state of the art maintenance and engineering facility at the airport. It is driving forth A380 compatibility at the airport as well.

Technical Operations
Upon completion of Pittsburgh Airways’ new Pittsburgh engineering facilities, the company will begin a formal engineering services provider company for aircraft maintenance, component fabrication and support, and engineering conceptual work.

Spaceflight
Following the lead of the Virgin airline group, Pittsburgh Airways is investigating the technology and infrastructure required to allow relatively cost effective use of spaceflight technologies for tourism and more practically, rapid air transport and satellite deployment and support.

Air Cargo
Pittsburgh Airways is in the initial stages of forming an air cargo division. It will be called Pittsburgh Air Cargo Systems (PACS).

________

A Description of Onboard Services

Economy Class

• Complimentary meals and snacks (flights over four hours)
• Seatback flatscreens with internet including access to Pittsburgh Airways' on demand audio/visual/gaming website (free except on some international flights)
• Complimentary copy of USAToday

First Class (International Only)

• Full recline and expand seats (fully reclined and expanded= twin size)
• Privacy curtain
• Complimentary on demand meals and snacks
• Seatback flatsceen (described above)
• Industry leading two meters of legroom
• Complimentary access to departure and arrival lounges
• Complimentary international phone calls

[DAL767-400ER]

I wonder how long it takes when someone comes with the Mile High Airline...

Wait til Richard Branson presents the interiors of Virgin's A380s .