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  • #46
    Originally posted by herpa2003
    If you are telling me to think about slavery in the 1800s, I already have. The US wasn't the only country to have slaves, you know. Some European and some African countries had slaves long before the US did. Check your history...
    I was referring to the sentence:

    ...and you don't have a lot of room to talk, considering some European countries are keen on exterminating 12 million people as well as starting 2 world wars.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by herpa2003
      First of all, quoting Hillary makes me want to puke. She makes me ashamed to be from NY.
      Do you like Pataki and Schumer?

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by ATLcenter
        Originally posted by Delta727-232
        Actually, America is far from being the world's richest country as our GDP (Gross Domestic Product) per capita reflects. Don't have the highest per capita GNP either.
        Not rich in just monetary terms. I have been told that the US military is the most comprehnsive and powerful in the world. I also know that America is very-well to do when you compare it to others. Even if Joe Schmoe isn't rich, America is on the richer side. The country is one of the most sucessful in my eyes atleast.
        since when is being militarily strong also being rich?
        you can be culturally rich, monetarily rich or whatever, but i find it barbaric to think that a country is rich or blessed or whatever because it spends more then any other nation and many other nations combined on military and not things that make sense.

        rich is something that is very differently percieved anyway.
        for example many countries in the eu have a lower avg gdp then the usa, however people usually work less and have more holiday and all european countries have a very wide social net and healthcare system.
        most europeans like it that way instead of having more gdp and a less social society. we like that.
        many americans like their type of society with a very thin social net and a very free and competition oriented market and economy. americans like that.

        so basically what im saying is that you cant exactly say this nation is richer in general. the societies differ too much. everyone has to pick what he likes.

        also some numbers:
        usa gdp:$10.1 trillion
        eu gdp: $13.1 trillion
        usa: $36,300 gdp per captia
        eu i dont know the eu avg but examples on the upper/lower range are:
        luxembourg: $44,000 gdp p.c.
        malta: $17,000 gdp p.c.
        aviation chat on irc: #[email protected]

        Comment


        • #49
          Comparing the E.U. to the U.S. is abit different then comparing the U.S. to say...France. But I think sooner or later, the E.U. will end up becoming almost like the U.S. Slowly, Europe's countries will loose their identities and become one. Its already starting to happen with the Euro.

          I'm sorry, but the reason I left France was because I don't agree with having people pay others for being lazy while they watch 25% or more of their hard earned salary go out the window.
          I'm sorry that the American system, although I admit very harsh at times, encourages people to WORK instead of run to the nearest unemployment office.

          -Clovis

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Aeronautics
            Originally posted by herpa2003
            If you are telling me to think about slavery in the 1800s, I already have. The US wasn't the only country to have slaves, you know. Some European and some African countries had slaves long before the US did. Check your history...
            I was referring to the sentence:

            ...and you don't have a lot of room to talk, considering some European countries are keen on exterminating 12 million people as well as starting 2 world wars.
            Ok, I admit, had the US, UK, and France done more to stop Germany before it invaded Poland, WWII migh never have happened.
            Fly Raleigh-Durham International, with direct flights on Air Canada, AirTran, American Airlines, American Eagle, America West, Continental Airlines, Continental Express, Delta Airlines, Delta Connection, jetBlue, Northwest Airlines, Southwest Airlines, United Express and US Airways to:

            ATL, AUS, BWI, BOS, CHS, CLT, MDW, ORD, CVG, CLE, DFW, DTW, FLL, BDL, HOU, IND, LAS, LAX, LGW, MEM, MIA, MSP, BNA, EWR, MSY, JFK, LGA, ORF, MCO, PHL, PHX, PIT, STL, SLC, TPA, YYZ, DCA and IAD.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by zak
              Originally posted by ATLcenter
              Originally posted by Delta727-232
              Actually, America is far from being the world's richest country as our GDP (Gross Domestic Product) per capita reflects. Don't have the highest per capita GNP either.
              Not rich in just monetary terms. I have been told that the US military is the most comprehnsive and powerful in the world. I also know that America is very-well to do when you compare it to others. Even if Joe Schmoe isn't rich, America is on the richer side. The country is one of the most sucessful in my eyes atleast.
              since when is being militarily strong also being rich?
              you can be culturally rich, monetarily rich or whatever, but i find it barbaric to think that a country is rich or blessed or whatever because it spends more then any other nation and many other nations combined on military and not things that make sense.

              rich is something that is very differently percieved anyway.
              for example many countries in the eu have a lower avg gdp then the usa, however people usually work less and have more holiday and all european countries have a very wide social net and healthcare system.
              most europeans like it that way instead of having more gdp and a less social society. we like that.
              many americans like their type of society with a very thin social net and a very free and competition oriented market and economy. americans like that.

              so basically what im saying is that you cant exactly say this nation is richer in general. the societies differ too much. everyone has to pick what he likes.

              also some numbers:
              usa gdp:$10.1 trillion
              eu gdp: $13.1 trillion
              usa: $36,300 gdp per captia
              eu i dont know the eu avg but examples on the upper/lower range are:
              luxembourg: $44,000 gdp p.c.
              malta: $17,000 gdp p.c.

              America may not be the richest, but it is certainly the strongest. No contest there...
              Fly Raleigh-Durham International, with direct flights on Air Canada, AirTran, American Airlines, American Eagle, America West, Continental Airlines, Continental Express, Delta Airlines, Delta Connection, jetBlue, Northwest Airlines, Southwest Airlines, United Express and US Airways to:

              ATL, AUS, BWI, BOS, CHS, CLT, MDW, ORD, CVG, CLE, DFW, DTW, FLL, BDL, HOU, IND, LAS, LAX, LGW, MEM, MIA, MSP, BNA, EWR, MSY, JFK, LGA, ORF, MCO, PHL, PHX, PIT, STL, SLC, TPA, YYZ, DCA and IAD.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Leftseat86
                Quote
                -Clovis
                The point I think is relevant here is unless the US stops deciding it can tell other people how their leaders should and shouldnt behave (IE Saddam), and dont try and tell me that there arent a great many Americans who said the same style of things about Saddam as we do about Bush, you cant expect others not to say the same kind of stuff about the US.

                And you claim the original poster has no idea what hes talking about when he posts...how do you know? Have you ever met him? Do you know what he watches, listens to, reads? I doubt it. So why assume he's ill-informed just because you disagree?
                I walked across an empty land
                I knew the pathway like the back of my hand
                I felt the earth beneath my feet
                Sat by the river and it made me complete

                Comment


                • #53
                  Sounds like a few people are jealous. :P

                  When you are un-beatable militarily as we are, you look at things differently..........and you can pretty much say and do what you please. That may bother some. Oh well, ask your socialist leaders (oxymoron?) what they are doing about it!?

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    To get this thread back on-topic:


                    George W. Bush: My Resumé

                    Past work experience:
                    • * Ran for congress and lost.
                      * Served for a decade on the board of a company that financed several R-rated slasher B movies.
                      * Bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas, so the company went bankrupt. Sold all my stock just in the nick of time to a wealthy Saudi friend of my father.
                      * Bought a small portion of the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that forcibly took land using eminent domain and tax-payer money.
                      * Elected to governorship of Texas, with the help of George Bush Sr. and generous donations and support from wealthy oilmen and Christian evangelicals.


                    Accomplishments While Governor of Texas:
                    • * Relaxed pollution laws for power and oil companies (I "grandfathered" the dirtiest coal burning power plants, making them exempt from clean air laws, for example) and made Texas the most polluted state in the Union, in 1999. The same year, Houston had the "highest ozone level reading in the nation", and was second most polluted city in the country from 1997 through 1999.
                      * Slashed taxes, reduced state revenue to the point of bankruptcy and put the Texas government in debt for billions in borrowed money, the interest for which is now paid for by the Texas taxpayer.
                      * Set a record for the most executions by any Governor in American history.


                    Accomplishments While US President:
                    • * Spent the largest surplus in the history of the country and nearly bankrupted the treasury.
                      * Shattered records for the biggest annual deficit in history.
                      * First president in US history to have all 50 states of the Union simultaneously reach the point of insolvency.
                      * Set economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in a 12 month cycle of any presidency, beating the previous record which was set during the depression years.
                      * Set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any president in US history.
                      * Set all-time record for biggest loss of value in the history of the stock market during any presidency.
                      * First president in US history to enter office with a criminal record.
                      * Removed more checks and balances, and have the least amount of congressional oversight than any presidential administration in US history.
                      First year in office set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any president in US history.
                      * After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, presided over the worst security failure in US history, the September 11 attack on the World Trade Center.
                      * Set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips on Air Force 1 than any other president in US history.
                      * In my first two years in office over 2.3 million Americans lost their job.
                      * Cut unemployment benefits for more out of work Americans than any president in US history.
                      * Set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12 month period.
                      * Appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in US history.
                      * Set the record for the least amount of press conferences than any president since the advent of television.
                      * Presided over the biggest energy crises in US history and refused to intervene when ENRON corruption was revealed and many states faced bankruptcy.
                      * Cut healthcare benefits for war veterans while posing on aircraft carriers in a flight suit and despite praising the troops at every opportunity.
                      * Set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets to protest me (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind.
                      * Dissolved or abandoned more international treaties than any president in US history.
                      * My presidency is the most secretive and unaccountable of any in US history, surpassing the secrecy of the Nixon administration at its darkest moments.
                      * Members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in US history. (the 'poorest' multi-millionaire, Condoleeza Rice has a Chevron oil tanker named after her)
                      * First president in US history to order a unilateral and unprovoked attack and military occupation of a sovereign nation.
                      * First president in US history to start a war against the will of the United Nations and the world community.
                      * Created the largest new government bureaucracy (Department of Homeland Security) in the history of the United States.
                      * First president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the human rights commission.
                      * First president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the elections monitoring board.
                      * Withdrew from the World Court (Permanent Court of International Justice) and I refuse to recognize it unless it gives my administration, the US and global corporations special immunity.
                      * Refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoners of war and refused to abide by the Geneva Conventions regarding prisoners of war by cleverly classifying them as "enemy combatants", thereby allowing us to circumvent the Geneva Conventions.
                      * First president in US history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 US elections).
                      * All-time US (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations.
                      * My personal friend and biggest life-time campaign contributor presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation).
                      * Squandered world sympathy for the US after 9/11, and in less than a year made the US the most resented country in the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in US and world history).
                      * First US president in history to have a majority of the people of Europe (71%) view the US as the biggest threat to world peace and stability.
                      * First US president in history to have the people of South Korea feel more threatened by the US than their immediate neighbor, North Korea.
                      * Changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.
                      * Set all-time record for number of administration appointees who violated US law by not selling huge investments in corporations bidding for government contracts.
                      * In the 18 months following the 911 attacks I have successfully prevented, stalled, diverted or spiked any real public investigation into the biggest security failure in the history of the United States.
                      * Failed to fulfill my pledge to get Usama Bin Laden 'dead or alive'.
                      * Removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other president in US history.
                      * In order to prevent financing abortions in China, I cut off all $34 million of aid to the U.N. Population Fund, which was also used to provide medical care to pregnant teenagers with defective pregnancies who will now die or walk around trailing urine and feces for the rest of their lives.


                    Records and References:
                    • * At least one conviction for drunk driving in Maine (Texas driving record has been erased and is not available).
                      * My daddy pulled strings to get me into the National Guard and make sure I didn't have to serve abroad during the Viet Nam war, and then I went AWOL and deserted the military during wartime, for which I was not punished.
                      * I refused to take drug tests or answer any questions about drug use.
                      * All records of my tenure as governor of Texas have been sequestered in my fathers library, sealed and unavailable for public view.
                      * All records of any SEC investigations into my insider trading or bankrupt companies are sealed and unavailable for public view.
                      * All minutes of meetings for any public corporation I served on the board are sealed and unavailable for public view.
                      * Any records or minutes from meetings I (or my VP) attended regarding public energy policy are sealed and unavailable for public review.
                      * For personal references please speak to my daddy or uncle James Baker, the attorney who persuaded the Supreme Court to appoint me. Mr. Baker's law firm is now representing the Saudi leadership in defense of civil law suits filed by the survivors and heirs of those killed and injured in the World Trade Center attacks.



                    (Source: http://cronus.com/bushresume/
                    [/url]

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Wow, a bunch of 1/2 truths and out right falsehoods from a known U.S. and Bush hater. Go crawl back under your rock and return to Airliners.net. Or better yet, go back to DU.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by B757300
                        Wow, a bunch of 1/2 truths and out right falsehoods from a known U.S. and Bush hater. Go crawl back under your rock and return to Airliners.net. Or better yet, go back to DU.
                        What do you mean, half truths?

                        Bush hater, OK. And although I am not very fond of US politics and politicians in general (including democrats), there's no reason to call me a US hater. I hate your leaders, not you (although you do give me reasons to hate you). The source-link I gave is from an American site. Would you like me to give you their e-mail address so you can tell Ashcroft about them?

                        Instead of 'crawling back under my rock' I am delighted to inform you that now even Europeans have proper houses to live in! Mine even has got a swimming pool!

                        Regarding the airliners.net reference, you can rest assure that you and I shall meet for future interesting discussions on this board, on a.net, yes even on airwhiners!

                        As always, it has been a pleasure discussing with you!

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by B757300
                          Wow, a bunch of 1/2 truths and out right falsehoods from a known U.S. and Bush hater. Go crawl back under your rock and return to Airliners.net. Or better yet, go back to DU.
                          and you are? oh wait the #1 bush lover from a.net
                          aviation chat on irc: #[email protected]

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by schoenorama
                            To get this thread back on-topic:


                            George W. Bush: My Resumé

                            Past work experience:
                            • * Ran for congress and lost.
                              * Served for a decade on the board of a company that financed several R-rated slasher B movies.
                              * Bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas, so the company went bankrupt. Sold all my stock just in the nick of time to a wealthy Saudi friend of my father.
                              * Bought a small portion of the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that forcibly took land using eminent domain and tax-payer money.
                              * Elected to governorship of Texas, with the help of George Bush Sr. and generous donations and support from wealthy oilmen and Christian evangelicals.


                            Accomplishments While Governor of Texas:
                            • * Relaxed pollution laws for power and oil companies (I "grandfathered" the dirtiest coal burning power plants, making them exempt from clean air laws, for example) and made Texas the most polluted state in the Union, in 1999. The same year, Houston had the "highest ozone level reading in the nation", and was second most polluted city in the country from 1997 through 1999.
                              * Slashed taxes, reduced state revenue to the point of bankruptcy and put the Texas government in debt for billions in borrowed money, the interest for which is now paid for by the Texas taxpayer.
                              * Set a record for the most executions by any Governor in American history.


                            Accomplishments While US President:
                            • * Spent the largest surplus in the history of the country and nearly bankrupted the treasury.
                              * Shattered records for the biggest annual deficit in history.
                              * First president in US history to have all 50 states of the Union simultaneously reach the point of insolvency.
                              * Set economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in a 12 month cycle of any presidency, beating the previous record which was set during the depression years.
                              * Set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any president in US history.
                              * Set all-time record for biggest loss of value in the history of the stock market during any presidency.
                              * First president in US history to enter office with a criminal record.
                              * Removed more checks and balances, and have the least amount of congressional oversight than any presidential administration in US history.
                              First year in office set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any president in US history.
                              * After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, presided over the worst security failure in US history, the September 11 attack on the World Trade Center.
                              * Set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips on Air Force 1 than any other president in US history.
                              * In my first two years in office over 2.3 million Americans lost their job.
                              * Cut unemployment benefits for more out of work Americans than any president in US history.
                              * Set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12 month period.
                              * Appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in US history.
                              * Set the record for the least amount of press conferences than any president since the advent of television.
                              * Presided over the biggest energy crises in US history and refused to intervene when ENRON corruption was revealed and many states faced bankruptcy.
                              * Cut healthcare benefits for war veterans while posing on aircraft carriers in a flight suit and despite praising the troops at every opportunity.
                              * Set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets to protest me (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind.
                              * Dissolved or abandoned more international treaties than any president in US history.
                              * My presidency is the most secretive and unaccountable of any in US history, surpassing the secrecy of the Nixon administration at its darkest moments.
                              * Members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in US history. (the 'poorest' multi-millionaire, Condoleeza Rice has a Chevron oil tanker named after her)
                              * First president in US history to order a unilateral and unprovoked attack and military occupation of a sovereign nation.
                              * First president in US history to start a war against the will of the United Nations and the world community.
                              * Created the largest new government bureaucracy (Department of Homeland Security) in the history of the United States.
                              * First president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the human rights commission.
                              * First president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the elections monitoring board.
                              * Withdrew from the World Court (Permanent Court of International Justice) and I refuse to recognize it unless it gives my administration, the US and global corporations special immunity.
                              * Refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoners of war and refused to abide by the Geneva Conventions regarding prisoners of war by cleverly classifying them as "enemy combatants", thereby allowing us to circumvent the Geneva Conventions.
                              * First president in US history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 US elections).
                              * All-time US (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations.
                              * My personal friend and biggest life-time campaign contributor presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation).
                              * Squandered world sympathy for the US after 9/11, and in less than a year made the US the most resented country in the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in US and world history).
                              * First US president in history to have a majority of the people of Europe (71%) view the US as the biggest threat to world peace and stability.
                              * First US president in history to have the people of South Korea feel more threatened by the US than their immediate neighbor, North Korea.
                              * Changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.
                              * Set all-time record for number of administration appointees who violated US law by not selling huge investments in corporations bidding for government contracts.
                              * In the 18 months following the 911 attacks I have successfully prevented, stalled, diverted or spiked any real public investigation into the biggest security failure in the history of the United States.
                              * Failed to fulfill my pledge to get Usama Bin Laden 'dead or alive'.
                              * Removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other president in US history.
                              * In order to prevent financing abortions in China, I cut off all $34 million of aid to the U.N. Population Fund, which was also used to provide medical care to pregnant teenagers with defective pregnancies who will now die or walk around trailing urine and feces for the rest of their lives.


                            Records and References:
                            • * At least one conviction for drunk driving in Maine (Texas driving record has been erased and is not available).
                              * My daddy pulled strings to get me into the National Guard and make sure I didn't have to serve abroad during the Viet Nam war, and then I went AWOL and deserted the military during wartime, for which I was not punished.
                              * I refused to take drug tests or answer any questions about drug use.
                              * All records of my tenure as governor of Texas have been sequestered in my fathers library, sealed and unavailable for public view.
                              * All records of any SEC investigations into my insider trading or bankrupt companies are sealed and unavailable for public view.
                              * All minutes of meetings for any public corporation I served on the board are sealed and unavailable for public view.
                              * Any records or minutes from meetings I (or my VP) attended regarding public energy policy are sealed and unavailable for public review.
                              * For personal references please speak to my daddy or uncle James Baker, the attorney who persuaded the Supreme Court to appoint me. Mr. Baker's law firm is now representing the Saudi leadership in defense of civil law suits filed by the survivors and heirs of those killed and injured in the World Trade Center attacks.



                            (Source: http://cronus.com/bushresume/
                            [/url]
                            These are facts, not half truths. I have seen these facts presented by several outlets.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              These are half truths. Many (if any) good things that Bush has done are included in this list, and a lot of it is plain BS. It must have come from a liberal site, the opposite of http://www.newsmax.com
                              Fly Raleigh-Durham International, with direct flights on Air Canada, AirTran, American Airlines, American Eagle, America West, Continental Airlines, Continental Express, Delta Airlines, Delta Connection, jetBlue, Northwest Airlines, Southwest Airlines, United Express and US Airways to:

                              ATL, AUS, BWI, BOS, CHS, CLT, MDW, ORD, CVG, CLE, DFW, DTW, FLL, BDL, HOU, IND, LAS, LAX, LGW, MEM, MIA, MSP, BNA, EWR, MSY, JFK, LGA, ORF, MCO, PHL, PHX, PIT, STL, SLC, TPA, YYZ, DCA and IAD.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                I don't intend to get into anymore of these political debates, they just make me look dumb

                                -Clovi

                                Comment

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