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Presidential Election Thread 2008

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  • #31
    Yes I agree, the Iraq war is a waste of money. I never supported it to begin with. Not in 2003 and not now, we have created more problems than we have solved.

    But the issue at hand was illegal immigration.

    The underlying issue here is that that we shouldn't be in Iraq, we shouldn't have such a generous welfare state, and we shouldn't be telling people that it's ok not to wait in line to become an American, just come across the border, do some complaining about how bad things are in your country and about how your being "mistreated" here, and we'll give you amnesty and help you out with welfare.

    And yes, illegal immigration is not the only thing draining our resources and money. Wars and trying to maintain our empire are two other big things, and illegal immigration just adds insult to injury so to speak. We are already trillions in debt, even if we stop the Iraq war, that's not going to get paid off anytime soon, and if we increase the welfare state in order to take care of illegal immigrants, we are going to get deeper into the hole.

    That's why I say, all of the big candidates this time around (and in the last few elections) suck. They are all about spending, wheater it's for Iraq or for illegal immigration, or whatever, they are going to put us deeper in the hole. The only one that doesn't subcribe that that philosphy is Ron Paul, and that's why I support him.

    Gangs in southern california. Nothing new. At all.
    So I guess that if before (for example) you had 100 gangs, and now you have 1000 that would be fine with you. It's one thing if you have a few gangs of a few local idots that get together on weekends and have a fight in the street. It's another when whole neightborhoods, schools, etc are run by international gangs, which is what MS-13 is.

    All I have to say about that is, Osama is laughing his ass off right now. Seriously. We have our priorities so far out of whack...
    Yeah, I agree with that statement.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by FlyingPhotog
      First, I have nothing against the American Dream. What I am against is my tax dollars being used to fund the welfare program to support them while they keep popping out kids in order to collect more money.
      First of all, thats not at all what is on the table vis a vis immigrants. There aren't any illegal immigrants getting a free ride and sitting on their asses at home collecting welfare checks, and thats not what ANYONE is proposing. I suggest reading up on the issue. I really don't understand wtf you guys are talking about when you speak of increasing the welfare state to support illegal immigrants. Right now they are only a small drain on the economy, mostly because of their status and the fact that they cant pay taxes or get insured. Also, going along with not wanting to give them scholarships, the fact is if more immigrants gained better education and improved their skills, they could make us even more money. Educating people is almost always an investment in the future economy. Most of them are already here, working, and supporting themselves. They just want RIGHTS. They just want to be AMERICANS.
      Second, let them pay taxes. They'd love to.


      Second, I do my own yard work and house cleaning. I couldn't care less if those jobs didn't exist.
      Good for you.

      Yawn... You're pretty good at coming around here once a month or so with your condescending, "Holier-Than-Thou" attitude, Clovis. How soon we all forget that you have all the right answers.

      I'm sorry, I've spent a lot of time thinking about these problems in depth and what the various options mean, and it is quite frustrating to see people spouting off the same irrelevant arguments all the time and saying "well by golly I dont want my tax dollars blah blah blah". Newsflash: your tax dolalrs are ALREADY going down the drain paying for missle defense systems and a multi billion dollar war against non existent WMDs, and you're angry because we want to allocate a comparably miniscule amount of money to help people get a better education and enrich their lives? I mean. I'm sorry man, I just don't see how you can THINK about these issues and come to these kinds of conclusions. The burden on the individual tax payer from allowing these folks to become US Citizens is next to NOTHING.


      Lots of interesting info here:

      http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

      The fact is, they're going to keep coming here looking for a better life no matter what. And we can keep wasting billions or more trying to block their entry ways and deport them, or we can use that money to educate them, integrate them, and expand the US workforce.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by DAL767-400ER
        Excellent. Using that logic, me and my parents shouldn't have tried to apply for a Green Card for the past, but rather one of us should have swam across the Rio Grande. Seriously, millions and millions of people across the globe apply for a US Green Card per year, with many of them skilled for higher-level jobs (read: tax-PAYERS), with only a minimum actually getting one due to US-imposed limits, yet it should be perfectly normal for Mexicans to get enter the US illegally and still get a Green Card AND social security even if they are only qualified to work as a janitor at a McD's (read: tax-TAKERS)? Excellent logic, really.

        We can afford it. My Dad did the same when he came here. People from el salvador who just spent the last 150$ they worked a year to make just to ride a bus to within 200 miles of the border and then continue on foot through the desert can obviously not afford it.

        Just sayin'.

        I actually think helping people who need help is a good thing. It's definitely not a popular idea these days in the United States...thats for sure...

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        • #34
          @ Clovis: I think underneath the individual ideals, one thing is obvious: neither of us are happy with Bush and the current government. We both want the same thing, and that thing is CHANGE!
          Follow me on Twitter! www.twitter.com/flyingphotog

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          • #35
            Originally posted by FlyingPhotog
            @ Clovis: I think underneath the individual ideals, one thing is obvious: neither of us are happy with Bush and the current government. We both want the same thing, and that thing is CHANGE!
            You tell him, Barak!
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            • #36
              Originally posted by FlyingPhotog
              @ Clovis: I think underneath the individual ideals, one thing is obvious: neither of us are happy with Bush and the current government. We both want the same thing, and that thing is CHANGE!

              Absolutely. The last 8 years have been terrible. Just don't vote for McCain as he evidently wants to keep going down the same exact road.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by DAL767-400ER
                ...even if they are only qualified to work as a janitor at a McD's (read: tax-TAKERS)?

                In most countries janitors and burger flippers are tax payers.

                How much tax money goes to McD, WalMart etc. so they can keep underpaying their employees?
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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Leftseat86
                  Absolutely. The last 8 years have been terrible.
                  Some justifiably say "A real state of emmergency"
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