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  • #31
    My personal belief is that all of us and the world in general would be a lot better off if religion had never come into existence to begin with. All it does is cause problems, like the situation that started this thread, the flaming in this thread, and other problems in general. There are dozens of different denominations of christians and they all pray to the same god, but at the same time hate each other because each side is convinced it's right. With Islam it's even worse, just look at the sunni/shiite sitation in Iraq. Not to mention what happens when religions collide. What's even worst is the fact that religious leaders basically change things as they go along, so if the church/pope or whatever decide that the religion believes this now, everyone will just change their beliefs because someone said so.

    And FYI, I actually went to catholic high school (even though I wish I didn't) and just about everyone there had a hypocritical, arrogant, stuck up, I'm better than everyone because I'm awesome attitude. The exact opposite of what the religion claims to teach. Not to mention the fascist like disciplinary ideals (I actually got suspended for a day for making a photoshop of this kids picture). Granted, there were some decent people, but over all it was a joke. Public school would have been a lot better IMO. So basically I'm saying, if you ever have kids, don't send them any religious school, I know I sure as hell wouldn't. Being there for 4 years really messed me up. Everything they tell you is nothing by lies. Not a good thing at all

    But I don't have a problem with people being religious as long as they don't try to convert everyone they see, force their religion on anyone else who doesn't want to hear it, or blowup abortion clinics/fly planes into buildings/whatever becuase god is calling them.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Airbus_A320
      My personal belief is that all of us and the world in general would be a lot better off if religion had never come into existence to begin with. All it does is cause problems, like the situation that started this thread, the flaming in this thread, and other problems in general. There are dozens of different denominations of christians and they all pray to the same god, but at the same time hate each other because each side is convinced it's right. With Islam it's even worse, just look at the sunni/shiite sitation in Iraq. Not to mention what happens when religions collide. What's even worst is the fact that religious leaders basically change things as they go along, so if the church/pope or whatever decide that the religion believes this now, everyone will just change their beliefs because someone said so.
      I've got to disagree here. I don't hate the other Christian sects (nor any other religious group). Furthermore, I feel closer all the time to the Islamic and Jewish people, because the three Abrahamic religions aren't as far apart as people would like you to believe. Also, I'm not sure what you mean by 'church/Pope' changing things all the time means? The Catholic Church really hasn't changed alot over the past 500 or so years. Could you cite an example?
      And FYI, I actually went to catholic high school (even though I wish I didn't) and just about everyone there had a hypocritical, arrogant, stuck up, I'm better than everyone attitude. The exact opposite of what the religion claims to teach. Not to mention the fascist like disciplinary ideals (I actually got suspended for a day for making a photoshop of this kids picture). Granted, there were some decent people, but over all it was a joke. Public school would have been a lot better IMO. So basically I'm saying, if you ever have kids, don't send them any religious school, I know I sure as hell wouldn't. Being there for 4 years really messed me up. Everything they tell you is nothing by lies. Not a good thing at all
      I have to agree with you here. Fr. John Corapi (a famous Priest/speaker) said, "If you want your kids to lose their faith...send them to a Catholic school." Like you said, there are good people everywhere, but Catholic schools tend not to foster good things.

      I really don't think it's fair to say that the world would be better if religion had never existed though. Look at the mathematic and scientific advances that the Muslims have given us (algebra, optics, and the scientific method(!) for example); the higher learning and healthcare establishments the Catholic Church has given us; the basis of our moral and legal systems from Judaism; etc., you get the picture. I think religion can definitely be contorted and misconstrued and used for evil (look at the Crusaides, the recent Radical Islam insurgence, etc. ad nauseum), but I don't think it's inherently evil. Plus, I don't think there's been that much flaming in this thread. Lots of discussion, but not too much flaming.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Airbus_A320
        My personal belief is that all of us and the world in general would be a lot better off if religion had never come into existence to begin with. (...)
        Let's not forget that the first hospitals were created and maintained by church before the state copied the idea.
        First schools and univercities were also church institutions. First librearies were church institutions and the list goes on.
        Then there is the law, which also has it's origins in a religious believes.

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        • #34
          Looks like the holy wars have begun.


          Someone please lock this
          Signatures are overrated

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Airfoilsguy
            Looks like the holy wars have begun.
            Where?

            Originally posted by Airfoilsguy
            Someone please lock this
            With so much hate of the free speach, you will make a perfect citizen of the New World Order Comrade.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Peter_K
              Where?


              With so much hate of the free speach, you will make a perfect citizen of the New World Order Comrade.

              And now the sweeping generalizations

              If you want to blather on about religion start your own thread, don't hijack someone else's.
              Signatures are overrated

              Comment


              • #37
                I beg your pardon, I only added my comments. Isn't it what a discussion forum is all about? Is only the starter of the thread allowed to post in it?

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Peter_K
                  I beg your pardon, I only added my comments. Isn't it what a discussion forum is all about? Is only the starter of the thread allowed to post in it?
                  No need to beg, the thread was started on a discussion about idiot parents, not about whose philosophy on religion is better. If it panes you so much why not start your own thread?
                  Signatures are overrated

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Airfoilsguy
                    No need to beg, the thread was started on a discussion about idiot parents, not about whose philosophy on religion is better. If it panes you so much why not start your own thread?
                    I beg you then to quote me a part where I stated anything with regards to whose religion is better.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Peter_K
                      I beg you then to quote me a part where I stated anything with regards to whose religion is better.
                      As I said before, there is no need to beg. Thats not the point though, the point is you hijacked someone else's thread to argue religion. Just like we further hijacked it to argue this. If you want to argue religion, start a thread. If you want to argue ague with me about thread hijacking, start a thread about it. That's all I have to say in the matter.
                      Signatures are overrated

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Airfoilsguy
                        As I said before, there is no need to beg. Thats not the point though, the point is you hijacked someone else's thread to argue religion. Just like we further hijacked it to argue this. If you want to argue religion, start a thread. If you want to argue ague with me about thread hijacking, start a thread about it. That's all I have to say in the matter.
                        How exactly did I hijack someones thread, when I simply made a reply to someone suggesting that there is no need for religion with an example of few positive aspects of religion? In fact no religion in particular, just any religion.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          And if you are going to hijack someone else's thread by ordering it to be locked, I suggest you start your own thread and order it to be locked.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Can I first of all clarify absolutely that I am not talking about religeon in any of my posts, but rather about judging and measuring the actions of people with a different belief system/mindset against your own.

                            As far as thread hijacking goes, possibly, but I can think of no better place to put it, as every post on the thread regarding the original topic is an example of exactly that. Everyone is measuring the actions of the people in the original article against their own reference of what is right and wrong.
                            ADCR
                            Tongue tied and twisted just an earth bound misfit

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Star Alliance
                              Gonna be honest with you: you really opened my eyes with this post. I had a subliminal attitude with him in those questions that I didn't even realise I had. I guess it was my own interpretation turning on me. I suppose I should have been kinder in my statement.
                              This part of his statement, I still have a problem with though:
                              It's no different than if I had a tree which I felt had unearthly powers so I ask it to heal me, it's no different than "praying to god"
                              I fail to see how that's not demeaning anothers' beliefs. If it isn't, I'd honestly like to know what it is, because I've studied it for a few minutes, and it still seems like a 'looking-down-his-nose' phrase. B757300 believes there is a God who can heal people; Messerschmitt Man does not. I think MM could have expressed this belief (or lack thereof) in a less offensive manner.

                              With that statement he was giving an example of how his beleif is formed. Just like the first part of the post, if the frame of reference for a beleif structure is based in logic then the easiest way to express yourself is in terms of statements of fact and when explanation is needed, often through anology. This is often perceived as aloofness, or demeaning or "looking down your nose". Another important thing to bear in mind is that while offence may or may not be intended, (only MM can answer as to wether or not that was the case with his post) it is something that is taken not given. For example, I'm sure that you would be a little surprised if I told you that your last sentence in that quote is one of the most offensive and demeaning I have ever read.
                              ADCR
                              Tongue tied and twisted just an earth bound misfit

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Star Alliance
                                I really don't think it's fair to say that the world would be better if religion had never existed though. Look at the mathematic and scientific advances that the Muslims have given us (algebra, optics, and the scientific method(!) for example); the higher learning and healthcare establishments the Catholic Church has given us; the basis of our moral and legal systems from Judaism; etc., you get the picture. I think religion can definitely be contorted and misconstrued and used for evil (look at the Crusaides, the recent Radical Islam insurgence, etc. ad nauseum), but I don't think it's inherently evil. Plus, I don't think there's been that much flaming in this thread. Lots of discussion, but not too much flaming.
                                I totally agree with this statement, although as stated, I certainly respect the view that net-net relegion has been a bad thing. Personally I dont beleive religion in and of itself has caused many of the negative aspects, more that power attracts those that would use it for evil as well as good, and that whatever power structures would have existed, they would have been used for evil, simply the justification would have differed and would have been based around expoloitation of the tennents of whatever the predominant beleif structure was. With respaect to flaming, I dont see much, I have three pre school daughters so this thread has been a real breath of fresh air in terms of the honest, open and mature discussion of human perception and beleif.
                                ADCR
                                Tongue tied and twisted just an earth bound misfit

                                Comment

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