Photographer Arrrested : For......well....Photographing Trains !!

[Shaggy]

Strange how it's you who finds the glitch Brian. I do wonder sometimes!!

Andy

Good lord. It's back

[rohank4284]

Right now I have a feeling the Amtrak police officer is regretting what he did....IF.....the story the guy is telling is true. Assuming the story is true then I think the officer will be searching for a new job in the near future.

I rode the train up to NYC on Amtrak the day before this took place. All of the officers were very courteous and I think most of them were NYPD officers. I saw a few Amtrak people on the tracks and they had no problem with me taking a picture. They actually saw me trying to take one and asked if they were in the way and moved off to the side so I could get a clear shot. So I think there are good officers who don't take it to the extreme and will let you off with a warning and hear you out if you have a disagreement and are calm and reasonable with it. Then there are those who do take it to the extreme and as soon as they put on that badge in the morning their "power" goes to their head.

What's worse is having an airline employee threaten to call the airport police and TSA on you if you don't stop taking pictures out the window of an airport. Of course it's more of a crime to have a professional lens and take the picture than to have a little P&S. She walked by and went off on me while the guy next to me snapped away with his little camera. Now THAT makes me mad. Though I was reasonable with her and she still was like "I'm gonna get the TSA over here" So we walked away and passed a TSA officer and asked him if he cared, and he obviously said that it was perfectly legal and didn't have a care in the world.

Best of luck to the guy!

-Chris

Well, Chris this is an unfortunate consequence of having a big, expensive SLR with a good lens. We all know why people are interested in taking photos of planes or airports, much of the general public doesn't understand why anyone would want to take such photos.

Here's what goes through the mind of a person unfamiliar with aviation photography, from the perspective of a police officer:

1. That guy over there, why is he taking so many airplane pictures, doesn't he have anything to do.

2. He has gigantic lens and an expensive camera, why would anyone need such equipment to take a few photos of planes for family memories. I wonder if he's up to something.

3. Let's go ask, most probably impolitely.

4. He sounds pretty normal, relaxed, calm and collected, I guess he isn't up to anything. I will leave him alone OR he's sounds very angry and agitated.

5. This doesn't look good and the situation gets ugly

I completely agree that having a big camera is not a crime, but it plays into people's psychology. The TSA has generally been very good about handling that stuff, without bothering people too much, but some airline employees can be done right annoying. Many of the ground employees are contracted employees, who generally have little to no interest in aviation and just want to feel powerful.

One of the reason's why I chose to buy my Canon Rebel XSI was because of itsrelatively compact size, this is also why I keep my tiny P&S with me on trips. I have never been questioned by anybody in a US airport, only once had a friendly BA employee come up to me in LHR, to talk about planes, turned out to be a very nice discussion.

I had to do a college project on Denver's commuter rail system once and I was taking photos of the RTD lightrail with the XSI and had a rail cop ask me if I was getting some good pictures and he helped me find some good spots. Of course, he did ask me why I was taking photos of the light rail, but when I calmy and politely explained to him, why, he just moved onto another topic and was very polite and helpful. Police officers are often curious as to why people are taking photos, remain calm and polite, sometimes difficutlt to do, I know, and you will get rewarded. If you get angry and annoyed at cops, it never helps.

I am willing to bet that the photographer in this story got annoyed at the cops, the cop asked him to delete the photos, the photographer shouted "NO" and the story went on the wrong turn.

In the US photography in most public places really isn't a problem, however, in some countries photography is against the law. This was the case in India and many tourists, even Indians, used to get their cameras confiscated because of it. Indian police have a reputation of being extremely corrupt and very unhelpful, I can personally attest to this. Thus, airport situations would often turn ugly. Recently, the Indian govt. has allowed photography at non-defense airports and on the planes. In addition, most Indian airports now use private security, instead, of the more corrupt govt. police, so the photgraphy situation has improved a lot. Before taking photos in public places in foreign countries, always check tourist phamplets, internet sites, govt. sites, etc to make sure that photography is allowed.

When photography wasn't allowed at Indian airports, most tourist phamplets generally warned tourists not to snap pictures of rail stations or airports.

Sorry to hear about your experience with that stupid airline employee, kudos to the TSA employee for actually doing the right thing.

I hope the Amtrak photographer will get released from jail and companies marketing depts. really have to be better about communicating with their security departments.

Regards,

Rohan

[exmanx]

Andy,

Where've you been lately ? I've been missing the quick smartass replies.

I've been moving, working and ill. And I didn't renew my Elite membership until very recently. Had to debate wether it was worth it or whether I should limit the sites i belong to.

I now have several hundred slide scans to upload!

Andy

[brianw999]

Andy,

Where've you been lately ? I've been missing the quick smartass replies.

[exmanx]

Unfortunately though, they're the one with a gun !



That unfortunate keyboard glitch opens up a forest of possible comical comments.

Strange how it's you who finds the glitch Brian. I do wonder sometimes!!

Andy

[brianw999]

and in this case these morons don't deserve any respect.

Unfortunately though, they're the one with a gun !

The police are pubic servants

That unfortunate keyboard glitch opens up a forest of possible comical comments.

[Lions]

The fact is most of these guys are totally uneducated and require very little schooling to carry a weapon, which is problem number one. How can a Police Office make a logical sound decision with little schooling? I have little respect for any uniformed officer who places their badge above the Constitution. The police are pubic servants and are there to protect and serve at the whim of the people. I applaud this person for taking a stand and telling them that he would not delete his pictures.

BTW Amtrak Police, NYPD, and Port Police cannot do "anything" they want anywhere my friend. An NYPD police officer when out of the boundaries of NYC do not have any more power then you are I. He or she can only make a citizen arrest, just like you or me. So drop the crap Tanner....Police only deserve the respect they show the public and in this case these morons don't deserve any respect.

As an ex police officer I totally agree with you Tom

[Jet-fighters.Net]

Personally i dont mind dealing with the officers. They have a job to do and they are human beings just like you or I. If you put yourself in there shoes they are not sure what you are up to, is this going to be a friendly encounter and ID check or is this guy going to pull a gun on you. I have several friends that are in law enforcement and they simply say there biggest complaint is people do not pay them any respect.

[G-TTIC]

Jet-fighters i can see your very good at getting the best result from these people. I'm not that bad with it either. Allthough it really rubs me up the wrong way inside even if i do an excelent job of not letting it show and keeping a cool head while the security people of any description are present. Don't you feel the same.

Its like when i got stopped 4 times in one day a man with his 3 year old daughter was there. They were there for thier first time and they got stopped twice while i was there and i got stopped with them as well. Just the usual what are you doing and explain you're reasons for being here buisness. I think that stopping a father and his 3 year old speaks volumes

[Sarcasm on] I bet that little girl was caught holding some bolt cutters [Sarcasm off]

I once spoke to a ATC controller who works in Vancouver. Me and him got talking and we had a good old moan about these issues and wondered if someone of a legal background who is also a photographer would fight this (relevant for deleting photos and not being allowed to use public access non airside locations to photograph).

[Jet-fighters.Net]

I agree that this country is in the grips of paranoia. But lets face it we all have to keep a level head about this. If you are approached by an officer chances are they were called to your location. If they do not investigate they can lose there job. While some officers are professional others are not the greatest to deal with. You dont know what is going through there mind when the are approaching you. If i was a officer of the peace i would have a feeling that my tact with the public today, would not be as good as lets say as another day because of a stressful situation i encountered yesterday evening. You never can tell what is happening.

My advice is to listen to the officers questions and concerns, and dont speak until they are finished talking.

comply with any of there requests to leave. If they ask you to delete the photos show them the images to show them that you are not taking photos of sensitive areas. Once they see your photos they will back down on there requests.

Carry examples of your work with you so that they can see what your images look like.

I have found these tips have worked very well for myself over the years with my many encounters with police, security and the military security forces.

[RobinB]

Paranoia Personified

Hoo boy, even with all our problems here in S Africa, we sure as hell dont have to "endure" this sort of crap. I have yet to be even "enquired upon" taking pics in places (in SA) such as: Airports (including SAAF Air bases), Harbours (including naval bases), railway stations/sidings, public buildings - in fact I have never been asked by any authoroty to "not take pics".

Oh, by the way, the US....... hmm rather a "violent set o words", perhaps you deserve what you get.

The Star Spangled Banner Lyrics By Francis Scott Key 1814 (interesting bits in parenthasis)

Oh, say can you see by the dawn's early light
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars thru the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched were so gallantly streaming?
(And the rocket's red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there.)
Oh, say does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the (land of the free) and the home of the brave?

On the shore, dimly seen through the mists of the deep,
(Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes),
What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
In full glory reflected now shines in the stream:
'Tis the star-spangled banner! Oh long may it wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

(And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country should leave us no more!
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave):
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

Oh! thus be it ever, (when freemen shall stand)
Between their loved home and the war's desolation!
Blest with victory and peace, may the heav'n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
(Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust.")
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave

[Tanner_J]

You won't see them because they do stick to Amtrak property and the surrounding areas.

They have the power to do it, it doesn't mean they do.

With that being said, I'm going to step out of this thread.

[Airbus_A320]

So basically, Tom gives an explanation with citations of what the law actually is with regards to Amtrak officers, and you continue to say that an Amtrak officer can just go out and patrol/enforce wherever he wants without permission from anyone because the Amtrak Police is actually a federal police force for the United States. And your source is ironically an Amtrak police officer who would benefit from interpreting the law to best suit himself and make him feel more powerful/special.

hmm.....

Personally, I have never even SEEN an Amtrak police officer or patrol car... ever. If they are so powerful and have unlimited power, why are they hiding someplace instead of enforcing some laws. Hell, if the Amtrak police has jurisdiction anywhere in the country, why even bother having the FBI? Just make all the agents Amtrak police officers.

[Tanner_J]

Once again, Amtrak police enforces local and federal laws. Amtrak runs in 46 states. Officers are commissioned in the states they are based. Federal law says if an Amtrak Police Officer is licensed in one state, they are commissioned in all. That is straight from one of the officers.

They can pull you over and enforce laws off of their property whether you think so or not. When it happens to you, go ahead and tell the officer he doesn't have the jurisdiction. I'd say he knows the rules better than you.

[thxcollins]

I'm a photographer and agree that the police could have handled the situation better, but last year's contest ended July, 2008. This year's contest has yet to be announced. For all we know, they could decided to discontinue the program for 2010's calendar. Why is he using that as a reason*?


*not that he would need one.