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Driver licenses to illegal immigrants in California????????

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  • Driver licenses to illegal immigrants in California????????

    Plan to grant driver licenses to illegal immigrants moves ahead

    SACRAMENTO — After gutting most anti-fraud and security safeguards, Assembly Democrats pushed through politically charged legislation Tuesday that would give illegal immigrants the right to obtain driver licenses.

    The 44-30 vote sends the measure to the Senate, where passage is far from assured. Senators had applied the brakes earlier, balking over costs, security and a new fingerprinting system.

    Sen. Gil Cedillo, a Los Angeles Democrat carrying the bill, said he is confident that recent amendments will satisfy wavering Democrats. Cedillo said he plans to ask for a Senate vote as early as today.

    In the Assembly, impassioned lawmakers rehashed many of the arguments pro and con in a drawn-out debate over the course of nearly three hours.

    Opponents invoked the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and supporters the memory of immigrants who gave their lives in the war against Iraq but who could not legally drive in California.

    Waving his plane ticket used to get to Sacramento, Assemblyman Russ Bogh, R-Beaumont, said passing the law tells terrorists “if you want to drive a plane into a building we’ll help you.”

    Charges flew over whether Gov. Gray Davis’ abrupt about-face on the issue was driven by the need to woo Latino voters heading into the Oct. 7 recall election. Davis twice vetoed similar legislation, citing security flaws.

    “Now they will be insured. They will be tested. They will be competent. Their names and addresses will be in the computer. All of that is a step forward,” Davis said last week in defending his support for the bill, SB 60.

    At times the debate turned nasty. Democrats insinuated that Republicans are anti-immigrant, working to deny those who toil in the fields, wash dishes or clean office buildings the ability to legally drive to work or take their children to school.

    “Timothy McVeigh was a terrorist and he had a driver’s license,” said Assemblywoman Sarah Reyes, D-Fresno, referring to the executed Oklahoma City bomber.

    “Let’s get serious. It is about dignity.”

    Republicans retaliated, implying that Democrats were trading public safety for Latino votes.

    Background checks and additional anti-fraud steps were eliminated from the bill, they noted.

    “This will say, ‘Our borders are open. Come one, come all,’ ” said Assemblyman Jay La Suer, R-La Mesa.

    Said Tony Strickland, R-Moorpark, “We’re creating a law for those who break the law.”

    Democrats insist the bill will assure that those who qualify would be tested and also could obtain insurance — making the roads safer for all.

    Late revisions to the measure scratched efforts to require all motorists to renew licenses in person rather than by mail so the state could secure a new fingerprint.

    A costly high-tech fingerprint system called biometrics, which some say is unreliable, also was dumped.

    Under the legislation, which would go into effect Jan. 1, applicants would need to provide a taxpayer identification number to prove they are working in California.

    Also, applicants would need to show two of the following forms of identification: a consular-issued card, a passport or a birth certificate.

    Cedillo said as many as 1.2 million illegal immigrants in California are old enough to drive.

    The South Bay delegation — Democrats George Nakano of Torrance, Alan Lowenthal of San Pedro and Jerome Horton of Inglewood — supported the bill.

    Jenny Oropeza, D-Carson, was absent.

    Publish Date:September 3, 2003
    http://www.dailybreeze.com/content/news/nmdriver3.html

    Ok, this kind of news makes me extremely mad California is pushing through a bill, with Gray Davis' blessing, to relax the requirements to get a drivers license and thereby allowing illegal immigrants to get a regular California drivers license. It was voted 44-30 yesterday and is now an official law. Why should California let illegal immigrants able to get drivers licenses in California? It's stupid! What's wrong with the picture? It requires only a Taxpayers Identification Number, which is easily obtained by anyone who doesn't have a Social Security number, and one other form of identification, which includes the Metricula Consular card issued by the Mexican government, which is deemed unsecure and unreliable by the US Department of Homeland Security. This opens a whole new door to terrorists into the U.S. since California *cough**cough* (democrats) *cough* passed the law. Assemblyman Russ Bogh, R-Beaumont, said passing the law tells terrorists “if you want to drive a plane into a building we’ll help you.”, which is exactly what California is doing. It's also stating to every illegal immigrant to come on over across the California border and get a free California drivers license under any name you'd like. What makes it even worse is that now we, the people of California, can't even even take a plane trip or vacation anywhere in the U.S. to another state because the other 49 states will now refuse any California drivers liscense as an ID card at the airport because they don't know if it's a terrorist or not. What do you guys think about this? I say, we vote Arnold in and let him cancel the law so it will stop occuring. I'm not racist or prejudice in any way, but why have illegals come into our country and get a drivers license in California, with no obligation, and open the door to terrorists? Right now, I'm ashamed of even living in California, now that this new law has passed.
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  • #2
    You have the answer already. You say why would California do this? Well the Liberal Democrats want the money! The illegals would be taxed getting the license, insurance, etc. Tax and spend, grow big government. Think of the additional manpower that will be needed to test and process all of these people! Where will that money come from..?

    The Metricula Consular card is a joke and Gray Davis is going down.

    Comment


    • #3
      It is harmless really, just to help the mexican population in California, a very big one btw......
      Click & Help

      ONE

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      • #4
        Harmless? We don't WANT the damn illegal immigrants to start with. Maybe they could just pick them up when they come in to get the license, take 'em out back, put them in a truck and haul their ass back to Mexico.

        I have no problem with immigrants legally coming in the country. But when taxpayers have to finance all the crap illegals generate, I would think people would rather spend that money on something worthwhile.

        Sure, tell them to come on in.....then ship them back.

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        • #5
          I still believe its harmless, I agree that inmigrants do not pay taxes etc....

          They also gain less than the minimal salary so .....

          And terrorism....forget about that it won't happen again so stop the paranoia, remember we learn from our mistakes, Terrorism in the US won't happen period.

          We will see through time if it is as bad as yall put it.....I bet it won't be but thats just my opinion .
          Click & Help

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Santijet
            I still believe its harmless, I agree that inmigrants do not pay taxes etc....

            They also gain less than the minimal salary so .....

            And terrorism....forget about that it won't happen again so stop the paranoia, remember we learn from our mistakes, Terrorism in the US won't happen period.

            We will see through time if it is as bad as yall put it.....I bet it won't be but thats just my opinion .
            Yeah, terrorism WILL happen if any illegal immigrant can get a drivers license in California. It's just like having Osama Bin Laden coming across the Mexican-U.S. border in California and going to a DMV and get a California Drivers License under another name (i.e. Jon Smith).

            JeffinDEN:
            Harmless? We don't WANT the damn illegal immigrants to start with. Maybe they could just pick them up when they come in to get the license, take 'em out back, put them in a truck and haul their ass back to Mexico....Sure, tell them to come on in.....then ship them back.
            I agree It's not that I don't like illegal immigrants, but it's the people who live in California and in the U.S. having to pay for medical needs every time they have a baby, education, etc...things like that. The U.S. should not be paying for things like that. It's wrong, immoral, and shouldn't happen at all. Yeah, it's fine if they come over when they have a workers permit, green card, etc... but 99.9% of them don't. Someone should seriously start an 'American Boarder Patrol' along the boarder of California, just like they've done in Texas Since the U.S. boarder Patrol only catch maybe 50-75 illegals everday out of tens of thousands that come over on a single day, the citizens of California should rent a bus, go down to the Mexican-California Boarder, catch the illegals, put them under citizens arrest, and then at the end of the day take them all back to Mexico.

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            • #7
              Re: Driver licenses to illegal immigrants in California?????

              At least this way they can purchase insurance. I would rather have them drive with insurance than without. Or is it better for the tax payers to flip the bill when an illegal hurts someone and doesnt have insurance? They are gonna drive anyway, isnt it better to make sure they know how to drive? Rather than them driving anyway without even passing a drivers test? Seems to me it is in our best intrest to make sure they are qualified to drive so they dont kill someone and to at least have insurance if they damage someones property.

              Maybe when we Americans stop standing on street corners with signs saying "will work for food" or please "give money" and go and work the fields and all the other jobs that no one wants, then maybe illegals wont be able to find work here and they wont have an incentive to come here. Untill then, there is plenty of jobs for them in the fields that we americans dont want to do. And as long as they are here they might as well get a license and car insurance.

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              • #8
                yea right, I'm sure that will be the first thing they do....

                What makes you think that someone that is in the country ILLEGALLY, makes less then minimum wage, will want to run down to the DMV, stand in line to go get a drivers license, emission test their unregistered car, and then hop on over to Allstate and write out a check for a few hundred dollars of insurance? If they even have a bank account.

                How many insurance companies do you think will want to RISK insuring an illegal immigrant? Could be tough sending a bill to someone with no address...or calling them on the phone to see where last month's payment is, and then find out they don't speak English, or that at any given time they might be riding a grey bus south on I-5....

                SEND THEM BACK Save a lot of money and hassle.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by JeffinDEN
                  yea right, I'm sure that will be the first thing they do....

                  What makes you think that someone that is in the country ILLEGALLY, makes less then minimum wage, will want to run down to the DMV, stand in line to go get a drivers license, emission test their unregistered car, and then hop on over to Allstate and write out a check for a few hundred dollars of insurance? If they even have a bank account.

                  How many insurance companies do you think will want to RISK insuring an illegal immigrant? Could be tough sending a bill to someone with no address...or calling them on the phone to see where last month's payment is, and then find out they don't speak English, or that at any given time they might be riding a grey bus south on I-5....

                  SEND THEM BACK Save a lot of money and hassle.
                  Do you even have insurance? Doesnt sound like you do, or if you do someone else filled out the paper work because they dont ask about your immigration status, all they require is a drivers liscense and a DMV print out. Furthermore, in California anyone can get insurance, because it is the law. Even if you have a horrendous record, the high risk companies HAVE to insure the person regardless as long is they have a valid license, otherwise they are NOT premitted to due business in California. Now you dont really think that it costs hundreds of dollars to insure a hoopty do you? Perhaps you should see for yourself what it costs to insure a 20 year old car with just the minimum requirement of the law. You will be pleased to see how even someone making minimum wage can afford a 6 month policy. Falling behind on monthly payments? Yeah right, if a person is not credit worthy the insurance companies will require the full amount for a 6 month policy. You really dont know much about insurance do you?

                  Where do you get this crap that illegals have no address? You dont think they are living under bridges like bums do you? Furthermore what makes you think that someone who doesnt speak English well isnt here legally?

                  I am curious, is it ignorance or racisim on your part that leads you to make such fallacious statements?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    For what it is worth, the best arguement against license for illegals is that it would make it easy for them to cross back and forth across the border. That would be the only reason I would be against it and not for reasons mentioned by others that simply dont hold water.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Jorge
                      Do you even have insurance?
                      Yes, for the last 27 years.


                      Originally posted by Jorge
                      ... all they require is a drivers liscense and a DMV print out.:
                      How are they going to get that DMV print out? And what will it say?..."No record found, ILLEGAL" ?

                      Originally posted by Jorge
                      Furthermore, in California anyone can get insurance, because it is the law. Even if you have a horrendous record, the high risk companies HAVE to insure the person regardless as long is they have a valid license, otherwise they are NOT premitted to due business in California.:
                      Very true. Stupid law, but remember that high risk = expensive insurance.


                      Originally posted by Jorge
                      Perhaps you should see for yourself what it costs to insure a 20 year old car with just the minimum requirement of the law.
                      Would I actually have to DRIVE that 20 year old clunker? Nah, I'll pass... you drive it.

                      Originally posted by Jorge
                      ..if a person is not credit worthy the insurance companies will require the full amount for a 6 month policy.
                      Thanks for helping me make my point. Having to pay the whole half year premium will probably start a rise in the crime rate as well.

                      Originally posted by Jorge
                      Where do you get this crap that illegals have no address?
                      I should have written "no legal address"

                      Originally posted by Jorge
                      You dont think they are living under bridges like bums do you? Furthermore what makes you think that someone who doesnt speak English well isnt here legally?
                      Well, yes. I have seen many illegals living under bridges, in dumpsters, doorways, etc. I never said that someone who doesn't speak English well wasn't here legally.

                      Originally posted by Jorge
                      I am curious, is it ignorance or racisim on your part that leads you to make such fallacious statements?
                      Neither, just having seen the effects of illegal immigrants first hand. I feel the same way about illegal immigrants here from other countries as well, not just mexicans.

                      I am curious if it is your heritage that has made you so upset and so defensive? Or is it your legal status? I would think as a tax payer in CA that you would prefer to keep more of your hard earned money, not give it away in taxes for stupid programs..... But hey, it's your money.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        My heritege? What does being of European decent have to do with my position on this? As for my legal status, I am as American as you. Actually it was all your emoticons that made me a little defensive. I am not upset. Discussing differences of opinions with someone on the internet is hardly worth getting upset.

                        Come on now, if they had a license then they would be able to get a print out and it would not say illegal.

                        No, you dont have to drive the 20 year old clunker, the point was how cheap it is to insure.

                        Thanks for helping me make my point. Having to pay the whole half year premium will probably start a rise in the crime rate as well.
                        There you go again with falacious statements. Can you actually quantify what you are suggesting? Besides insuring a 20 year old clunker costs less then 200 bucks for 6 months, at least where I live.

                        Well, yes. I have seen many illegals living under bridges, in dumpsters, doorways, etc. I never said that someone who doesn't speak English well wasn't here legally.
                        You mean you stopped to ask them if they were illegal? And you didn't turn them in?

                        As a California tax payer I already pay for stupid things.

                        Let me just be clear on this point, I am against illegal immigration. I would just rather have the drivers on the same roads that I travel, licensed to drive, so that they at least understand the traffic laws. And as I said before, to me the only real problem in this is that it would make travel accross the border for illegals much easier, as they only require a license to cross the Canadian and Mexican borders.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Jorge
                          What does being of European decent have to do with my position on this? As for my legal status, I am as American as you.
                          If you were born in the US, or have Parents that are American citizens and were born outside the country, then yes, you are as American as me. If you are a naturalized citizen then no, you are not as American as me.


                          Originally posted by Jorge
                          There you go again with falacious statements. Can you actually quantify what you are suggesting?
                          I'm pretty sure if you look at the reasons for crime, it almost always involves money, or the lack of it. Can you actually quantify the benefit from giving an illegal alien a license? No, as it has not been done, and you know it.

                          Originally posted by Jorge
                          You mean you stopped to ask them if they were illegal? And you didn't turn them in?
                          No, I didn't need to. When I saw them run like rabbits when that funny colored green truck approached the corner they were standing on, I jsut assumed they were not running to find the nearest restroom.

                          Originally posted by Jorge
                          As a California tax payer I already pay for stupid things.
                          Thank Mr. Davis.

                          Originally posted by Jorge
                          I would just rather have the drivers on the same roads that I travel, licensed to drive, so that they at least understand the traffic laws.
                          If these people understood the concept of our law and want to abide by it, then they would not be here AGAINST THE LAW in the first place. And what makes you think that having a license to operate a vehicle will make them obey the law?

                          The whole concept is silly, and will do nothing to make driving in CA safer.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            So we make people who want to come to the US legally wait years for their citizenship and then we give out a driving license to people who just hop across the border? Doesn't seem fair, does it?
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                            • #15
                              no, I am with Jeff 100%.


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