Columbine: 10yrs ago today.

[ConcordeBoy]

Tough to believe it's been this much time.

For our non-USAmerican members who might not be familiar: the Columbine Massacre was a shootout in a Colorado highschool that now, despite no longer being the most deadly example of such, is still easily the most (in)famous.

Two bullied teenagers (Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold) decided to take out their angst against "jocks" by shooting up their school, and killed a dozen classmates, plus a teacher, and then themselves.

Today, we remember the 10th anniversary. RIP.

[Gimli Glider]

Tough to believe it's been this much time.

Wow, yeah.

Not sure about everywhere else but here in Littleton all the flags were at half staff. Very sad day.

[Airbus_A320]

What kind of irks me is the fact that all the articles out there talk about gun control, security, resources officers, cameras, should be used to prevent stuff like this, and schools taking steps to practice crisis and emergency management and all kinds bull that wont help one bit. And people seem to ignore the root of the problem. Kids don't shoot up the school just for fun. Stuff like this happens after being messed with a bunch when they feel that their lives are going nowhere and might as well end it and take as many people with them as they can. If these kids were getting bullied or made fun of (words and humiliation are far worse than getting your ass kicked a couple of times), someone should have done something about it, and tried to get to them before they snapped. This should be the responsibility of teachers and school administrators, but it is almost always neglected. I have first hand experience with getting picked on in high school, and believe me it's not fun, it hurts, and while after you just learn to ignore them but it does mess with you a lot, and the emotional effects last long after HS. Basically you pretty much end up feeling like shit about yourself. Often times it happens right in front of teachers, but they just tell the kid to be quiet or whatever if he's being disruptive, and at lunch, or during free periods it's pretty much open season. The only option you are left with is to just take it, which is what I did. In the end, different people deal with this kind of stuff in different ways, unfortunately, for some that means shooting up the school. It's pretty much the same situation anytime there is a school shooting. Kid gets picked on and snaps, yet people still ignore the obvious cause of the problem, and start talking about gun control, cameras, or some other crap

I'm not saying anyone ever has the right to shoot up the school, I'm just saying that that the root cause of school shootings is ignored. Maybe people just don't understand how much getting picked on really messes with a person since most people don't go through it. (And no, if you get picked on constantly, you can't just "man up" and not feel bad).
And for those on this forum who are in the high school, if you see a kid that gets made fun of a bunch, don't join in on it... it's not good and you could be making fun of someone who is an interesting person, whose friendship would be a lot better than a few cheap laughs.

[ConcordeBoy]

someone should have done something about it, and tried to get to them before they snapped. This should be the responsibility of teachers and school administrators

Whoa whoa whoa, time out: I gotta call BULLSHIT on that one.


The responsibility of the teachers is to.... (wait on it).... teach.
The responsibility of the school administrators is to run the school as an institution.

The responsibility to make sure your obviously disturbed child doesn't become a danger to everyone around him, falls on the.......... parents/legal guardians!

You have one kid who fits the psychiatric (not so much the Hollywood) definition of a psychopath, practically down to the letter. You have another one who dresses in all black, and routinely goes deep into the woods to videotape himself shooting at objects that he names for people he's acquainted with, with an illegal weapon at that. Um, where were the parents in this?

[Airbus_A320]

Whoa whoa whoa, time out: I gotta call BULLSHIT on that one.


The responsibility of the teachers is to.... (wait on it).... teach.
The responsibility of the school administrators is to run the school as an institution.

The responsibility to make sure your obviously disturbed child doesn't become a danger to everyone around him, falls on the.......... parents/legal guardians!

You have one kid who fits the psychiatric (not so much the Hollywood) definition of a psychopath, practically down to the letter. You have another one who dresses in all black, and routinely goes deep into the woods to videotape himself shooting at objects that he names for people he's acquainted with, with an illegal weapon at that. Um, where were the parents in this?

How do you know the kid was *obviously* disturbed to the parents? I went through hell but didn't say a damn thing to my parents. Why? Because I didn't want them going to the school to complain and causing even more problems. The problems happened at school. If they saw the kid being bullied/picked on they should have done something about it, I don't think these kids started out wanting to shoot up the school, they did it after taking several years of abuse, with many of their mental problems probably resulting from that. When the kids are at school, they are under the care of the school, it's not much to ask that people try to make them feel comfortable and not get picked on. As I said however, this is never done. Yes, parents could and should have done more too, IIRC the parents didn't take much interest in them either, and that probably would have made a difference. But don't even say that the school has no responsibility to make sure kids feel safe and comfortable, that's exactly the kind of attitude that is part of the problem. A lot of shit goes on at schools and teachers and admins just ignore it, some teachers can't even keep control of thier own classrooms.

The kid being disturbed is only half the problem, there are many disturbed people out there and they don't all go out and shoot places up. I went through a lot of shit in HS, so I do believe I know better than anyone (who hasn't) what it's like. It's not fun and if you are already messed up enough abuse will make you snap. And if you aren't messed up, it gets you close to the point of being messed up. Kids can be the biggest assholes, and apparently many parents don't teach their kids that bullying or picking on other kids isn't good. That's where parenting should come in... making sure your kid doesn't go around being a douchebag, unfortunately that responsibility is almost always neglected too.

[ConcordeBoy]

How do you know the kid was *obviously* disturbed to the parents?

They'd been warned by others ranging from peers, to teachers, to neighbors concerned about these kids shooting up the backwoods.

I went through hell but didn't say a damn thing to my parents.

what does what you did have to do with this case?

As I said however, this is never done.

FALSE.
What are you talking about, there've been schools that have developed into such nannystates that activities like tag, dodgeball, shirts&skins, and flag football are now banned on account of bullying and self esteem.

Yes, parents could and should have done more too

My, what a brilliantly insightful suggestion

the parents didn't take much interest in them either

which just miiiiiiiiiiiight be the point I was raising, don't ya think?

and that probably would have made a difference.

Stunning conclusion... how do you do it??!!

But don't even say that the school has no responsibility to make sure kids feel safe and comfortable.

Only to the extent that the environment provided is one where students can amass an education uninhibited. It is not a teacher's responsibility to make sure some long-haired hippy kid who wears makeup and dresses in all black (which, BTW, is but a reflection of the parents, and has absolutely nothing to do with the kid's "personality" or "individualism") isn't ridiculued.

A lot of shit goes on at schools and teachers and admins just ignore it, some teachers can't even keep control of thier own classrooms.

If the latter is the case, then such conditions are not conducive to learning, meaning that the school is therefore in violation of its expected roll and duty

I do believe I know better than anyone (who hasn't)

Oh? And do tell... who hasn't?
Who do you know that had the perfect, uninhibited, unridiculed, completely socially flawless adolescence? I'd like to meet that person!

and apparently many parents don't teach their kids that bullying or picking on other kids isn't good. That's where parenting should come in... making sure your kid doesn't go around being a douchebag, unfortunately that responsibility is almost always neglected too.

Hmmm, sorta takes us back to that original point in contention, doesn't it....

[Alex - Spot-This !]

A lot of shit goes on at schools and teachers and admins just ignore it, some teachers can't even keep control of thier own classrooms.

This is clearly big BULLSHIT too, I'm a teacher for 14-17yo teenagers and let me tell you that 90% of the teachers work so hard and destroy their health day after day to do the best they can to help those kid. And yes, unfortunatly a very small minority of teachers do a bad job but can you find a job in the world where 100% of people work perfectly ?
I mostly work with teenagers with big problems and for sure we always end up with the same conclusion, if the parents do their parent "job" you very rarely end up with any trouble with those kids, now when people except school to do the educationnal part and don't take their own responsability you have an open ground for problems.
School is there to TEACH and to help parents in their educationnal role but NOT to replace parents in their every day educationnal role !!

Regards
Alex

[ConcordeBoy]

The responsibility of the teachers is to.... (wait on it).... teach.
The responsibility of the school administrators is to run the school as an institution.

School is there to TEACH and to help parents in their educationnal role but NOT to replace parents in their every day educationnal role !!

...scary thing is, some people seem to think that this is some manner of novel idea!

[Alessandro]

Those individuals wanted their evil deeds to become a motion picture, glad none did it.

[ConcordeBoy]

Those individuals wanted their evil deeds to become a motion picture, glad none did it.

Unfortunately, I'd say that's just a matter of time... no surprise that it's taking so long either, as they'd probably want to "give it time" and receive less criticism, while still maintaining controversy-inspired interest.

[Alessandro]

Unfortunately, I'd say that's just a matter of time... no surprise that it's taking so long either, as they'd probably want to "give it time" and receive less criticism, while still maintaining controversy-inspired interest.

Well, who´s going to finance this film? Nobody I think.

[ConcordeBoy]

Well, who´s going to finance this film? Nobody I think.

Whoa, wait a minute.... did you just attempt to make the case that no one in entertainment would want to finance something that's controversial, distasteful, and well-known??

Are you KIDDING me with this???