New immagration bill

[BoeingKing77]

The Czechs should speak English ?

No,what I mean is if they are here illegally,then they should speak english.They are the illigal immigrants,if you were confused.

But I think I'm right that the US doesn't have a national language ?

Yes it does.English is the official language.

[EconomyClass]

You know, when the Normans ruled England, the official language was French. But we have English today because outside ruling circles, people spoke what was natural to them. That's a key fact in the history of the English language. Seems kinda ironic that we now are in the position of the Normans, saying "learn our language". If the Normans had done that, we'd all be posting in French.

[Simpleboy]

Ok, original poster said,

Anybody heard about the Ari. governers bill?Its the right to stop/pull over anybody that could be an illegal immagrant and ask for proof of citizenship.Do you think its right or wrong??I say its right.

To which you said

Here's my question: How is this "new"? Where I live, if the cop turns on his flashing lights and tells you on the bull horn to pull over, first thing he says as he arrives at your car window is "I need to see your identification". Hasn't that been standard everywhere for decades? Are there states where cops don't ask for any kind of ID on a stop?

I replied

I'm assuming that everytime someone hands over a foreign drivers license or passport counts as ID though, however, it doesnt prove that you have a right to be in the country.

So, now with you saying

OK, that's progress. But if the aim is to prove the right to be in the country, won't that necessitate something more or different from asking for ID. How would YOU prove you have a right to be in the country?

My point was, at a traffic stop, your asked for ID, not proof to be in the country. There's a subtle difference.
If im in the US of A and i get pulled over on a traffic stop and get asked for ID im ging to show my New Zealand drivers license because its ID which shows my competency of driving a vehicle.

What this new bill means (from my understanding of whats put on here) is at a traffic stop i may then be asked for proof of being able to be in the country, at which point as a tourist, i'd need my passport with a visa, however illegal immigrants would get caught out not having a green card or neccessary visa, which i think is fair enough.

And BK77, English is a de facto national language, the USA does not having an official language.

[EconomyClass]

So how would you carry around "proof of citizenship". Seems like it'd have to be a birth certificate or something indicating naturalization.

But then hold it? Why would one NEED to be a citizen? The country is crawling with legitimate residents who've gotten permission in one way or another to be here. "Proof of citizenship" excludes classes of people legitimately in the country. Maybe what they'll really demand is some documentation proving the person is legally in the country. Much like the I-9 that you have to submit to get a job (legally, at least).

Does sort of put us in the statist mode of "your papers please?" But that's probably what the supporters want. They're probably irked to see people around who've just entered the country without announcing their presence. And aren't convinced they are here for any good. For example, if a drug mule for the Mexican cartels does it, he'd prefer NOT to be known to the authorities. But he might come bristling with weapons and shoot actual legal citizens if his plan got discrupted in this way or that. Knowing that these bloodthirsty crooks are barely across the border might be enough to get Arizonans to want martial law.

[Simpleboy]

So how would you carry around "proof of citizenship". Seems like it'd have to be a birth certificate or something indicating naturalization.

But then hold it? Why would one NEED to be a citizen? The country is crawling with legitimate residents who've gotten permission in one way or another to be here. "Proof of citizenship" excludes classes of people legitimately in the country. Maybe what they'll really demand is some documentation proving the person is legally in the country. Much like the I-9 that you have to submit to get a job (legally, at least).

Does sort of put us in the statist mode of "your papers please?" But that's probably what the supporters want. They're probably irked to see people around who've just entered the country without announcing their presence. And aren't convinced they are here for any good. For example, if a drug mule for the Mexican cartels does it, he'd prefer NOT to be known to the authorities. But he might come bristling with weapons and shoot actual legal citizens if his plan got discrupted in this way or that. Knowing that these bloodthirsty crooks are barely across the border might be enough to get Arizonans to want martial law.

I dont know how the law would work in actuality because i dont know of anyone who would constantly carry proof of entitlement to be in the country, it could be something like (using the traffic stop example again) you get stopped, and from then you have 1 week to visit a police station with the appropriate papers, or if you are an american, simply a passport.
The problem with that is following up on people who then dont visit the local PD, but expecting people to have it on them all the time is rediculous. I mean, the closest you'd expect would be havign it in your car etc, but what if your car gets stolen or such.

I dont have a problem at all with the law, but how it is enforced will play a major role in its success as there isnt an easy option.

[LX-A343]

I mean,its our country.If they are in our country they should speak our language.

Hmmmm .... funny thing is, that the United States don't have any "Official Language", at least at federal level. I'm not sure, if some states have an official language. You can call English as a de facto National Language, i.e. the most used language, but that's it.

[brianw999]

With due deference to our site owner.....

.....Americans do not speak English

A donut is actually a doughnut !

A sidewalk is a pavement. !

A hood is a bonnet (Hoods are worn by young thugs...bonnets are worn by pretty young ladies and also cover the engine compartment of a car.) !

Lidocaine is actually Lignocaine (you need to be a medic to understand that) !

A trunk holds a tree up...it does'nt cover the boot of a car !

...there is however one thing true to both countries...

MacDonalds is crap food wherever you are

[LX-A343]

You as Englishmen should had brought in sports: Only Americans call a sport Football and carry that thing by hand, while the other sport where the ball is actually kicked with the feet is called "Soccer"!

MacDonalds is crap food wherever you are

Unlike McDonalds!!!!!

[W7PSK]

About time. Now if the Fed would only Buck up to protect the over run at our borders and not try to figure out how to get 12 million new votes. Its funny if your caught being Illegal in Mexico you get an automatic Jail term. Here we give em Benefits and licenses and free health care.

[W7PSK]

Hmmmm .... funny thing is, that the United States don't have any "Official Language", at least at federal level. I'm not sure, if some states have an official language. You can call English as a de facto National Language, i.e. the most used language, but that's it.

Because of our PC Bullstuff climate, we are not allowed to pick an official language. We are the only nation. AFAIK, If you try to Immigrate to any other non-English speaking country your required to speak the language. AND AFAIK, most other english speaking countries require you to learn the language to live there.

[Deadstick]

Because of our PC Bullstuff climate, we are not allowed to pick an official language. We are the only nation. AFAIK, If you try to Immigrate to any other non-English speaking country your required to speak the language. AND AFAIK, most other english speaking countries require you to learn the language to live there.

From the U.S. Immigration web site:

Definition of Citizenship: Citizenship is the status given to a legal member of the country. It involves rights, duties and privileges.

United States Citizenship: U.S. citizenship is usually acquired by birth when the child is born in the territory of the United States. This is provided under the 14th Amendment of the United States Constitution.

Naturalization: The process by which a citizen of a foreign country becomes a United States citizen. Order the US Citizenship Application Guide for more information.

Eligibility Requirements: All naturalization applicants must demonstrate good moral character. Other naturalization requirements may be modified or waived for certain applicants, such as spouses of U.S. Citizens, or individuals currently serving in the United States military.

Additional Citizenship Requirements Include:

• A period of continuous residence and physical presence in the United States
• The ability to read, write and speak English
• Good moral character
• Knowledge of the principles of the U.S. Constitution
• Favorable disposition towards the United States
• Ability to pass the United States Citizenship Test

I believe reading, writing and speaking English is required as you can see above.

[BoeingKing77]

I love when you press on that link,Deadstick,for the United States Citizenship Test,how this is on one thing:
Satisfaction Guaranteed
We stand behind the quality of our immigration products with a 30-day money back guarantee.

[W7PSK]

I believe reading, writing and speaking English is required as you can see above.

I stand corrected.

Too bad its not enforced.

[Deadstick]

Just discovered thanks to BK that I wasn't on the official USCIS site. So just to be sure I copied the requirements from the official site here:

Eligibility Requirements

To be eligible for naturalization under section 316(a) of the INA, an applicant must:

• Be 18 or older
• Be a permanent resident (green card holder) for at least 5 years immediately preceding the date of filing the Form N-400, Application for Naturalization
• Have lived within the state, or USCIS district with jurisdiction over the applicant’s place of residence, for at least 3 months prior to the date of filing the application
• Have continuous residence in the United States as a permanent resident for at least 5 years immediately preceding the date of the filing the application
• Be physically present in the United States for at least 30 months out of the 5 years immediately preceding the date of filing the application
• Reside continuously within the United States from the date of application for naturalization up to the time of naturalization
• Be able to read, write, and speak English and have knowledge and an understanding of U.S. history and government (civics).
• Be a person of good moral character, attached to the principles of the Constitution of the United States, and well disposed to the good order and happiness of the United States during all relevant periods under the law

Bolding done by me.

Now as to enforcement, reference?

By the way, before you think I'm some left wing softy on illegal immigration (definitely a lefty, but never soft) I lived in San Diego for 30 years and I know how bad the whole illegal immigration problem is. I was always amazed at how many illegals go to the trouble to cross the desert when all they had to do was go to the San Ysidro border crossing with a little money and claim they were going shopping for the day in Mission Valley. Then they can disappear at will. I consider our ridiculously porous border a very serious problem and would love to see a very stout cork shoved in the bottle, both north and south.

One of the problems is we need some of these workers. There's an enormous number of illegals that work the fields that we'd have an impossible time replacing with Americans or actual work permit people. I've been there. I actually worked the apple orchards of WA state in my youth and all of my coworkers were illegal, but Americans got their apples for cheap. And that goes for lettuce, strawberries, corn and any number of other hard labor foods we consume. Not to mention the large numbers of illegals that have helped to rebuild New Orleans and show up every two weeks to preen the yards of people that could otherwise do it for themselves or afford to pay a decent wage to someone with a legitimate reason to be here.

It's a much larger and more difficult problem than can be solved by the bloviations of the right wing entertainment media.

[EconomyClass]

I completely agree. Americans do not speak English. Aussies and Kiwis don't either. There's the Queen's English, then there's all these other languages. We should be acknowledging that the USA has had its own Anglo-related language for centuries. As soon that they gratuitously started using indigenous words, the language became unique. To me saying "English" is an anachronism. How do we expect Mexicans to learn a foreign language like English. And if they start talking Eastenders, how many of us would really understand that much better.

No, what they need to learn is American. And since everything seems to be cooked by them where I live (including Mongolian barbecue!) they seem to be doing it for the most part. But those who don't, won't,can't, done belong here.

And "cheap labor" is no argument whatever for refusing to enforce the law. We have historically high unemployment. Why should all those jobs be done by illegals?