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The Decline of Socialization

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  • The Decline of Socialization

    I've been reading online posts since sometime in 1989. I've long ago learned what to expect from people here. But sometimes I wonder what to make of the atmosphere. I notice some people are pretty active. But another very consistent fact is the ratio of lurkers to active posters. The lurkers are usually the substantial majority. It is something to ponder. It could be some people have nothing to say. But I know for a fact that people who disagree with the prevailing point of view just don't want to become a target for the vicious onslaught that comes when you challenge it.

    I think sometimes and wonder if the people who flame on very little encouragement respond that way to people they meet offline who hold different views from them. Do they call them morons, uninformed, or any of the whole manual of abusive terms. At church, at work, in the street, is this a "normal way of interacting"? Or is it just when forced to realize their ideas are not universally considered truth by other people in cyberspace that their socialization takes a break? Are they even socialized? Is this a predictable result of having absent parents?

    Well, I'm not enough of a social scientist to risk definite answers. But I do think after this 21 years that people who choose to be active are very nonrepresentative of the larger population. My experience is that the whole society has not become cruder to that extent. Oh, there's a lot of crudity around, but still the newspaper letters to the editor don't show it. On the street interviews don't show it. People I see every day aren't nearly that crude or insulting.

    If you inferred where society is going from reading messages on popular discussion sites, you'd project a grim future indeed. But so far, the uebergeeks don't own society. People who got a more balanced education still outnumber them.

  • #2
    Originally posted by EconomyClass View Post
    I've been reading online posts since sometime in 1989. I've long ago learned what to expect from people here..
    Translation - I came to this forum with a combative attitude knowing that my ill-educated opinions would stir up trouble

    Originally posted by EconomyClass View Post
    But sometimes I wonder what to make of the atmosphere. I notice some people are pretty active. But another very consistent fact is the ratio of lurkers to active posters. The lurkers are usually the substantial majority. It is something to ponder.
    Translation for you EC, perhaps they don't agree with the crap you pollute the forum with.

    Originally posted by EconomyClass View Post
    It could be some people have nothing to say.
    Take their lead...

    Originally posted by EconomyClass View Post
    But I know for a fact that people who disagree with the prevailing point of view just don't want to become a target for the vicious onslaught that comes when you challenge it.
    No, I've found that if you have a different point of view and are prepared to debate the point you will get reasoned discussion of the differing points of view. The mods are generally even handed and step in if there are unjustified attacks going on against an individual. Given that I haven't seen a mod jump in to 'save' you I'd say that the posts you object to must be considered justified.

    If you come on here with close to zero knowledge, in a forum where most seem to have a much better idea of how aircraft work than you do, with an attitude that you know better because "I-haven't-crashed-my-car-in-40-years-why-do-pilots-and-airlines-stuff-it-up-so-often" then you might attract some heat.

    Look at it this way - if I started frequenting IT forums casting aspersions that computers and programmers were trying to kill us and that riding in a computer controlled elevator is akin to a death wish, you'd decide I was a screaming idiot. However, I don't stick my nose into computer fora, whereas you....

    Originally posted by EconomyClass View Post
    I think sometimes and wonder if the people who flame on very little encouragement respond that way to people they meet offline who hold different views from them. Do they call them morons, uninformed, or any of the whole manual of abusive terms.
    Given that you've been posting your stupid accusations and lobbing your, what was it? "grenades of corporate deniability' at the airline industry and professionals now for what a year under two different online identities, then yeah, I'd have trouble bringing myself to pee on you if you were aflame.

    Originally posted by EconomyClass View Post
    At church, at work, in the street, is this a "normal way of interacting"? .
    No, only to people who continually stick their hand back into the meat grinder again and again.

    Originally posted by EconomyClass View Post
    Or is it just when forced to realize their ideas are not universally considered truth by other people in cyberspace that their socialization takes a break? .
    Normally people after being corrected a few times may realise that their pre conceived notions of safety may be wrong, these people normally then STFU and start to learn and ask constructive questions in an effort to learn - hell, they may even go away and do some research. That's what most people would do. You however, still continue to push your wheelbarrow despite being proven again and again that your pre conceived notions are wrong - even the most ardent pacifist would be tested by your continual blatherings and then, yeah, I guess their 'socialisaton would take a break'.

    Originally posted by EconomyClass View Post
    Are they even socialized? .
    I'm Australian, ergo, never socialised.

    Originally posted by EconomyClass View Post
    Is this a predictable result of having absent parents?.
    No, thanks for asking Dr Freud (or do you profess an expertise in psychiatry as well?).

    Originally posted by EconomyClass View Post
    Well, I'm not enough of a social scientist to risk definite answers. .
    And yet you have absolute conviction that aviation is run by homocidal maniacs using death trap machinery despite having absolutly no idea of this subject. Why restrict yourself to commenting on aviation, you should branch out into sociaology as well. Go find yourself I nice sociological forum and give them the benefit of your knowledge. Please.

    Originally posted by EconomyClass View Post
    But I do think after this 21 years that people who choose to be active are very nonrepresentative of the larger population. My experience is that the whole society has not become cruder to that extent. Oh, there's a lot of crudity around, but still the newspaper letters to the editor don't show it. On the street interviews don't show it. People I see every day aren't nearly that crude or insulting.
    People I see every day are normally smarter and learn from their mistakes.

    Originally posted by EconomyClass View Post
    If you inferred where society is going from reading messages on popular discussion sites, you'd project a grim future indeed.
    Only if you only read messages from ATFS_Crash and EC and whatever your alter ego was.

    Originally posted by EconomyClass View Post
    But so far, the uebergeeks don't own society. People who got a more balanced education still outnumber them.
    Quite.

    Comment


    • #3
      With the title of this thread I thought it was made by ATFS_Crash
      August 29th will be the worst day of the year.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by ATFS_Crash
        That's because people like you, SYDCBRWOD, BoeingKing77, etc... are very uncivilized. You have a mob mentality. You're hatemongers. You advance your socialist, hatemongering politics. You're a bunch of trolls.

        You and your gang almost continually make dishonest straw arguments. You and your gang have a history of making unfounded personal attacks. Many of you are obviously deliberately lying and are deliberately being hypocritical. You and your gang are void of honor. Even though you and your gang have been repeatedly caught in lies and an ignorance; you continually attack others that are more honest and more knowledgeable than yourself even though you and your gang have negative credibility.

        The reason that so few people post here it's largely because of the harassment that you thugs give, and because you thugs clutter up so many threads with psychobabble, filibustering straw arguments, lies, unfounded personal attacks and off-topic babble, and personal vindictiveness.

        As I've said many times before because of members like you I feel the motto of this form would more appropriately be : JetPhotos.Net Forums - The Unfriendly Way to Fly

        People like you have driven many people away. Especially with aviation threads; why bother posting here when trying to have a civilized intelligent conversation/debate when people like you are constantly derailing threads and turning things into unfounded personal attacks.

        I would say about 90% of the posts that I make here people respond with unfounded personal attacks. If you disagree with me fine, then have a civilized debate based on logic facts and substance. Regretfully most of you and your mob's posts have no substance ( no intellect/facts/logic).
        :lol
        Hatemongers.Nice.
        August 29th will be the worst day of the year.

        Comment


        • #5
          And so it came to pass, in the land of Ubitsch, that socialisation declined and the handbags appeared again; and swung, and swung, and swung...
          Last edited by HB-IHC; 2010-07-06, 00:17.



          All our final decisions are made in a state of mind that is not going to last (Marcel Proust)

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ATFS_Crash
            That's because people like you, SYDCBRWOD, BoeingKing77, etc... are very uncivilized. You have a mob mentality. You're hatemongers. You advance your socialist, hatemongering politics. You're a bunch of trolls.

            You and your gang almost continually make dishonest straw arguments. You and your gang have a history of making unfounded personal attacks. Many of you are obviously deliberately lying and are deliberately being hypocritical. You and your gang are void of honor. Even though you and your gang have been repeatedly caught in lies and an ignorance; you continually attack others that are more honest and more knowledgeable than yourself even though you and your gang have negative credibility.

            The reason that so few people post here it's largely because of the harassment that you thugs give, and because you thugs clutter up so many threads with psychobabble, filibustering straw arguments, lies, unfounded personal attacks and off-topic babble, and personal vindictiveness.

            As I've said many times before because of members like you I feel the motto of this form would more appropriately be : JetPhotos.Net Forums - The Unfriendly Way to Fly

            People like you have driven many people away. Especially with aviation threads; why bother posting here when trying to have a civilized intelligent conversation/debate when people like you are constantly derailing threads and turning things into unfounded personal attacks.

            I would say about 90% of the posts that I make here people respond with unfounded personal attacks. If you disagree with me fine, then have a civilized debate based on logic facts and substance. Regretfully most of you and your mob's posts have no substance ( no intellect/facts/logic).
            - Mate, you gotta toughen-up buddy!
            The world has a life, therefore isn't spending time thinking about any of the crap your spewing. I think you've found in the past that it gets you attention to fling this pseudo political garbage about, but its just making the people on this forum scratch their heads. And please, uncivilised? Wait till you come across someone who is genuinely uncivilised, your going to get a rude shock. *News Flash - There is no gang. Your being paranoid, about a lot of things mate. Some people on this site do go off a little too harshly sometimes but, you may have noticed quite a few proffesionals on this site and others like me who have dedicated years to the study of all things aviation. Its not surprising therefore that you'l find some people get straight out offended by anyone argueing with them when the opponant has no idea. I think SYDCBRWOD said this better.
            You are entitled to your opinion mate, make no mistake, but i just think you've chosen the wrong audience, and your delivery is a little over zealous, which predisposes people to turn off. And thats just my opinion, i'm no expert either.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by ATFS_Crash
              On the contrary. You and brianw999, SYDCBRWOD, BoeingKing77, HalcyonDays, Deadstick all got your panties in bunches when I dared to criticize your late racist leader.
              Easy there seabiscuit!!
              August 29th will be the worst day of the year.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ATFS_Crash
                On the contrary. You and brianw999, SYDCBRWOD, BoeingKing77, HalcyonDays, Deadstick all got your panties in bunches when I dared to criticize your late racist leader. You fascists can't take the facts without having a hissy fit and ganging up on anyone that dares to think for themselves and use logic and facts and tell the truth. You're the Internet equivalent of storm troopers. You girls need some education, so moral guidance, psychiatric treatment and some anger management classes.


                On the contrary, you are babbling and wasting people's time.

                I'm telling the truth and using logic. Since you fascists have no life and get your thrills out of babbling racist rhetoric like from Hitler and Obama. If you really had a life than you would object to HB-IHC, brianw999, SYDCBRWOD, BoeingKing77, HalcyonDays, Deadstick, ect... ranting off topic and derailing threads with bigoted babble, and unfounded personal attacks.

                I'm not the only one is tired of all this mob mentality; as I pointed out that's probably why many people have left and why many people don't bother to post here.
                Wow! I got called out? Too cool. Glad to be a thorn in your side.

                You're not speaking anyones truth but your own, and you certainly don't speak with any logic.

                You are amusing though. It makes me wonder why if you're so miserable posting here, why you don't just go away. I would miss you. But then how can I miss you if you don't go away?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ATFS_Crash
                  I'm telling the truth and using logic. Since you fascists...

                  ATFS: I'm sorry you find my recent posts overly serious. I thought a little light relief might bring about a lighter mood rather than having to see all the unneccessary histrionics littered across the forum community but please, be sure, I'd never laugh at you. Having said that, I suppose I'd better be serious now since, I'm sure, you'd like me to take you seriously.

                  I've followed many of your posts over time because you do obviosuly have something to say and, in doing so, I've noticed some very interesting aspects in your communications which you might find interesting.


                  Many, if not most, of your starter topics stem from what can objectively be called 'sensationalist news coverage' and the general direction of the 'arguments' made are in relation to how 'wicked' other people are (evidence ATFS Thread Starters x many)

                  The vocabulary used demonstrates an intellect and potential, although much of it eventually degenerates (often very quickly) into some form of vitriol (case in point)

                  Sometimes, posts made about the treatment that ATFS receives can be accurate, although the way in which ATFS communicates this is usually no better than the treatment received and usually far worse (evidence ATFS post history)

                  Some of the ATFS sentence constructions are quite lucid and succinct, but many of them are mundane, repetetive , unnececessarily verbose and lacking in objective reasoning (evidence ATFS post history)

                  Concepts and 'arguments' are often stated, restated and stated again and again throughout a thread and across threads and these often display inflections of the same words, much akin to someone walking through to the next substitute word in a Thesaurus over and over again (see ATFS posting history)

                  Direct questions asking for clarification from ATFS are seldom met with any form of clarification (e.g. as with the classic ATFS signature word: what is your definition of "Fascist" - see ATFS posting history)

                  When ATFS communication degenerates it tends to display an equal and opposite force of lack of awareness (e.g. this is a global forum, not everyone is American, and not everyone has "a leader")

                  The 'old' ATFS voice was based upon concepts such as "saving the world" and "moral compasses" whereas the 'new' one revolves about "logic" and "reason". This evidences many of the observations made above; the obsessive words of yesterday have merely been replaced by those of today but, in the final analysis, the voice is the exactly the same.

                  There are some very helpful posts for ATFS in these forums, but no one has ever been able to bring any insight to the matter. On the contrary; attempts to enter into logical, unbiased dialogue with ATFS have mostly resulted, somewhere along the line, to others being told that their moral compass is broken, that they're a fascist, that they don't think logically, that they're just using rhetoric etc. etc.


                  I'd certainly like to see the person behind the ATFS mask... as and when they've learnt that to observe something in others is to first possess it in themselves, but if ATFS continues to sow, ATFS will continue to reap.

                  ATFS, you are surely your own worst enemy and, unfortunately, it's attitudes and obsessions like yours that give Americans a bad name all over the world (that much, I think, must be true: you are an American judging by your obssessive focus on things associated to American politics (but not necessarily politics itself)).

                  You want to save the world and prevent evil?... the wisdom of ages shows that the only way to do that is to start on ourselves deal with ourselves and finish with ourselves.

                  There's still time for you ATFS... unless you meet someone in the street who disagrees with you and is as obsessive and destructive as yourself. After all, you guys got guns ova there don't ya know?
                  Last edited by HB-IHC; 2010-07-06, 09:56.



                  All our final decisions are made in a state of mind that is not going to last (Marcel Proust)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ATFS_Crash
                    You are a sociopath. What next are you going to tell some "Niger" jokes stereotyping and demonizing Negroes as a way to lighten things up? Tell some anti semitic Jew jokes to lighten things up? Do you victimize woman, old people, and disabled people for your own entertainment?

                    You think it is fun to abuse people and derail threads with your bigoted babbling. There are many trolls like you on this forum; that's why so many people have left and why so many people refuse to post here. You like to call me destructive; but take a look at your own actions. Sociopaths like you the troll and bully for your own personal entertainment is part of the reason why so many people have left this forum and why so few people take this forum seriously. What you would consider "lighten things up" I would consider trolling and bullying and is why so many people have left this place and why so many people refuse to post here.

                    You guys repeatedly asked the same question over and over; despite the fact that I have already answered the question many times in many ways. You trolls claim that I didn't answer questions; when I already have answered them. Then when I do answer them again in response to your trolls questions; you then say I'm being repetitive. But it is you trolls that are being repetitive because you are asking questions that have already been answered and that should be obvious to anyone with any intelligence.

                    So many people leave here and refuse to post here because there are so many trolls like you that are abusive for your own personal entertainment.

                    ATFS... thanks for holding back. Such discipline!
                    Last edited by HB-IHC; 2010-07-06, 15:43.



                    All our final decisions are made in a state of mind that is not going to last (Marcel Proust)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Crash,

                      Taking Paul on in a literary war of words is a battle you are sure to lose.

                      Oh yes, by the way, "Niger" is a river in Africa. I believe the word you were looking for is "nigger" ?

                      A long time ago in a job before the one I have now, I and some friends were howling with laughter when we heard the following said to a black work colleague. "You no-good black enamel nigger bastard, you are useless. F**k off"

                      Why were we howling with laughter ? Because the bloke saying it was so black he farted soot !

                      Was HE being rascist ?

                      I have one piece of advice for you to take forward into your early adulthood.
                      For God's sake stick to an anonymous computer with your ranting....because one day, if you say it out loud in public, you are sure to wind up with a smoking hole in you.
                      If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by HB-IHC View Post
                        Some of the ATFS sentence constructions are quite lucid and succinct, but many of them are mundane, repetetive , unnececessarily verbose and lacking in objective reasoning (evidence ATFS post history)
                        That's true of the vast majority of internet posters, certainly the "unnecessarily verbose" part. Most people take multiple pargraphs to articulate what can be expressed in at most six or seven words.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ATFS_Crash
                          You are a sociopath. What next are you going to tell some "Niger" jokes stereotyping and demonizing Negroes as a way to lighten things up? Tell some anti semitic Jew jokes to lighten things up? Do you victimize woman, old people, and disabled people for your own entertainment?

                          You think it is fun to abuse people and derail threads with your bigoted babbling. There are many trolls like you on this forum; that's why so many people have left and why so many people refuse to post here. You like to call me destructive; but take a look at your own actions. Sociopaths like you the troll and bully for your own personal entertainment is part of the reason why so many people have left this forum and why so few people take this forum seriously. What you would consider "lighten things up" I would consider trolling and bullying and is why so many people have left this place and why so many people refuse to post here.

                          You guys repeatedly asked the same question over and over; despite the fact that I have already answered the question many times in many ways. You trolls claim that I didn't answer questions; when I already have answered them. Then when I do answer them again in response to your trolls questions; you then say I'm being repetitive. But it is you trolls that are being repetitive because you are asking questions that have already been answered and that should be obvious to anyone with any intelligence.

                          So many people leave here and refuse to post here because there are so many trolls like you that are abusive for your own personal entertainment.
                          I just realized something.Your calling us nazis,but wasnt it the nazis who always twisted things to mean the complete opposite of what someone was trying to say??


                          BTW:Nice job HB-IHC
                          August 29th will be the worst day of the year.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Man is what he thinks about all day (sorry Curtis... 8 words )

                            Ralph Waldo Emerson



                            ... and the result is his voice.
                            Last edited by HB-IHC; 2010-07-06, 16:57.



                            All our final decisions are made in a state of mind that is not going to last (Marcel Proust)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I rarely post here, save for the occasional good natured jab at BoeingKing. I joined to follow along various threads and gain some further insight into the aviation world. And while I have no personal dislike of anyone here, I just find myself with nothing truly interesting to say; I guess I just can't really relate with anyone just yet.

                              Doesn't mean that I don't enjoy reading the threads though. 8D

                              On another note;
                              ATFS, if you think these people are trolls, you seriously need to get your perspectives straightened out. Have you ever heard of 4chan's /b/? 7chan? Lulz? Dramachan? 420chan's /i/? How about the /i/nfidels from the /i/nsurgency group whose primary purpose is to organize and partake in "raids" both online and offline?

                              I'm asking because. THESE are troll sites. THESE are where the hate mongerers and the dramallamas reside, the self proclaimed toilet bowls of the internet. I know, because I /used/ to be involved with online trolling. Nothing serious beyond making inflammatory remarks against someone online and then perpetuating, unlike others who have taken down the entire websites of various organizations[Church of Scientology, for instance], who have taken people's identities, robbed them of their online reputations, and even that of their offline ones, who have left harassing phone calls and have even vandalized personal property. This is done because they can, and because to them, its funny to watch people freaking out over it. It's "lulzy".

                              Just because someone doesn't agree with your line of thought, doesn't mean that they're trolls. What they're doing now, could be construed as trolling, but only because you behave so caustically when someone so much as disagrees with a word in your argument. If you were to behave like this on ANY of the sites I have linked you to, you would be quite literally ravaged by the trolls to the point where you have bricks flying through bedroom window because they have found your address through your IP[yes, they have indeed done this to people]. Your counter insults, overthetop arguments, pompous attitude, and general nature is what every troll looks for in a "victim".

                              No ATFS, you don't know a thing about trolling. It's just a term you throw around because people don't believe everything you say unquestioningly.
                              Last edited by mzk49o1; 2010-07-06, 18:32. Reason: wtf random asteriks?

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