I need to vent about Iraq

[tommyalf]

Well I've just about had it with this anti U.S, anti war rhetoric popping up all over the place. I just got done reading some posts on A.net and I'm simply tired of the U.S being put down for its stance on Iraq! Call me brainwashed, call me narrow minded but I believe 100% that Iraq has WMD's and is covering up the evidence. Shall I remind everyone of Iraq's less then stellar track record?

1. Invaded Kuwait for no reason what so ever.
2. Killed hundreds of Kuwaiti babies in incubators.
3. Used chemical weapons on the Kurds in Northern Iraq.
4. Killed many of it's own citizens without just cause.
5. 12 years later still has not complied with U.N resolutions to disarm.
6. Lied to the world that it has no WMD's.
7. Used money from the Oil for food program to fund government and military projects.

That's just some of horrific details of Iraq's track record. Yet the world sits back and says the U.S only wants Iraq for the oil. Cut the crap people, pull your head out of your ass and wake up. If we let Iraq's leadership remain in power, 5 to 10 years from now we will face a regional conflict in the Mid East that will spread throughout the world. Saddam's sons have ambitions of their own; you won't be able to keep them contained within Iraq's boarders. Oh and as far as wanting the oil for ourselves.... If our allies don't help us foot the bill for this war then we are well within our rights to keep the oil for ourselves. So I want to make it clear that I believe my government when they say.

Iraq has WMD's
Iraq is hiding their WMD's
Iraq has chemical and Bio weapons on three cargo ships sailing around the world and within their boarders.
Iraq is trying to develop a nuclear weapon.
Iraq is an evil empire that needs to be wiped off the face of the Earth!

Do the research folks you'll find it's the truth.

[Chris Kilroy]

My favorite is how Iraq claims to not have chemical and biological weapons, then threatens to use chemical and biological weapons against our troops should a war begin.

Moreover, it's amazing how the anti-war crowd can continue to say that there is "no proof" that Iraq has chemical and biological weapons in light of the statement above.

[indian airlines]

My favorite is how Iraq claims to not have chemical and biological weapons, then threatens to use chemical and biological weapons against our troops should a war begin.

I don't think iraq ever said that. If they did, could you please indicate the source from where u got this piece of 'information'?

So Saddam Hussein has done some horrific things in his lifetime. Why is USA having a problem with that? They are neither directly nor indirectly being threatened. They have not been asked for help by any country.

Weapons of mass destruction. Do u really think so!! And even if Iraq has them, so do so many other countries. Why doesn't USA attack them. Why don't all those countries attack USA. After all, even USA has weapons of mass destruction.

Its high time USA stopped acting as policemen of the world, and deal with their own internal issues first. (don't say they have none, they have plenty)

USA is capitalizing on unrest in the middle east to gain control of the oil market there.

Think about this. Why did Clinton not do anything about this? Because he didn't have a problem. George Bush wants to oust Saddam, only because his father failed to do so.

Do u people actually want a third world war to start???

[dave4164_Z]

I don't think iraq ever said that. If they did, could you please indicate the source from where u got this piece of 'information'?

So Saddam Hussein has done some horrific things in his lifetime. Why is USA having a problem with that? They are neither directly nor indirectly being threatened. They have not been asked for help by any country.

Weapons of mass destruction. Do u really think so!! And even if Iraq has them, so do so many other countries. Why doesn't USA attack them. Why don't all those countries attack USA. After all, even USA has weapons of mass destruction.

Its high time USA stopped acting as policemen of the world, and deal with their own internal issues first. (don't say they have none, they have plenty)

USA is capitalizing on unrest in the middle east to gain control of the oil market there.

Think about this. Why did Clinton not do anything about this? Because he didn't have a problem. George Bush wants to oust Saddam, only because his father failed to do so.

Do u people actually want a third world war to start???

I doubt anyone wants a third world war to start, unfortunately that may be a side effect of this ever morphing "war on terrorism". North Korea is taking an aggressive stance, India and Pakistan are close to irradiating one another, Israel and the Palestine territories are still duking it out, and the biggest kid on the block (USA) isn't helping matters by constantly chanting war cries, even if it is a "poker-bluff".

Of course the US has its problems domestically. Every society larger than three people has that problem. Of course, the world has grown smaller and smaller, and each society's domestic problems are almost the worlds problems at this point.

[JeffM]

I'm with you Tom.

Jeff

[Richard]

Look, I know I've been a real anti-war buff on the forums but at the same time I too think of Saddam Hussein as Saddam In-ssein.

Look, I know that the Iraqi people and the Middle East would be better off without this man. I can't deny his ignominious past. But let's just think. Bush has been wanting to go to war with Iraq for over a year. OK, but why now? When Bush was elected he made no hint of his grievances with Iraq. And in turn, Hussein was doing pretty much nothing. Clinton did nothing about Iraq when UN inspectors were booted out in 1998, that would have been more of a legitimate time. I see the anti-war side but I also see the pro-war side.

Just because many don't want war, it doesnt mean that they believe Iraq is good. Many of you are convinced that Hussein has WMD's. But a lot of people aren't. Sooner or later the Iraqis will be ordered to produce hard evidence (documents, reports, photos etc...) of the destruction of their WMD's. If the Iraqis can't show such evidence, then we have a case for war. Look, let's just stick to the most recent UN resolution that the US drafted which is agreed upon by the entire UNSC. Let's wait for Hussein to mess up. Otherwise what's the point of drafting a resolution if it's going to be omitted by its creators? More support would be given in ousting Hussein if he were to cross this newly established line, he's very close to it already. Trust me, it's easier to counter scritiny and skepticism if there are more people to back you. Why do you think Bush and Powell are working hard to convince others to follow their cause?
I'm sure you are all very familiar with the UN resolution....

Just think about it. I'm not trying to proselytize anyone here, I wasn't last time either as I stated. I just want to offer different sides of a story. Let's not start a brawl.

[FMS]

Iraq is an evil empire that needs to be wiped off the face of the Earth!

Has the thought that people actually LIVE in that country ever popped up in your mind? Your arrogance is insulting to all of mankind. Where do you find the nerve to state that millions of innocent people should need to be wiped off the face of the earth?

And I'm just wondering: What's your opinion on N. Korea? Isn't a country that actually states that it's rockets can reach the US coast a far greater threat than Iraq? They also say that if the US will not lift it's sanctions on the country, they will turn the Korean peninsula into a pile of ashes...
Move your ships and soldiers over there I'd say...

[tommyalf]

FMS the quote is the stance of the U.S government and President Bush. It also refers to the government of Iraq and not the people. As for N. Korea the U.S will deal with them in time. We've made it very clear to N. Korea that if they stop rebuilding their nuclear program we would sit down and talk. So far N. Korea hasn't made any attempt to stop their nuclear program. Also for everyone who states "why is it all right that the U.S has WMD's and not Iraq and N. Korea" we aren't threatening Canada and Mexico with total destruction, it's a weak argument.

[FMS]

Also for everyone who states "why is it all right that the U.S has WMD's and not Iraq and N. Korea" we aren't threatening Canada and Mexico with total destruction, it's a weak argument

preceded by:

Iraq is an evil empire that needs to be wiped off the face of the Earth!

The USA is threatening Iraq with total destruction and they have totally destructed Vietnam and Afghanistan in the past.

To the (innocent) people of Iraq and surrounding countries like Israel etc, the USA is a far bigger threat then Saddam Hussein himself. What will this idiot do if the USA attacks?? No one knows exactly, but everybody can imagine what a chemical/biological/nuclear weapon in the centre of Tel Aviv or Jerusalem would look like...He might (will) also retaliate against the USA directly by means of some kind of terrorist attack.

That is why your beloved war should only be used as a final resort IMHO. A war might solve your problem with saddam and his WMD, but in the long run it will only flame more anti-american sentiment throughout the Midlle East and the rest of the world. Things will escalate beyond the USA's control.

grtz

[Aeronautics]

I want to comment on the statement anti-war, anti-US.

A lot of people from the US sees the anti-war Europeans also as anti-US. But that is not true. It is possible to disagree with the Iraq policy of Bush, but still not being anti-US.

[tommyalf]

the USA is a far bigger threat then Saddam Hussein himself.
grtz

How in the world can you say the U.S is a greater threat then Hussein himself? I'm totally blown away by that statement! The U.S isn't going to go into Iraq round up innocent citizens and execute them simply because they disagree with us. We're not going to go into Northern Iraq and gas the Kurds to test our weapons.

FMS your country was occupied by Nazi Germany because countries like the U.K and France allowed Hitler to rebuild Germany's forces. Give Saddam the chance he will rebuild and use those weapons. Simply keeping Iraq contained is not the answer. Saddam needs to be removed and a new Iraqi government that is free and democratic should be put in place. Prolonging Iraq's containment will not help stabilize the situation. There are times force needs to be taken and this is one of those times.

[Aeronautics]

FMS your country was occupied by Nazi Germany because countries like the U.K and France allowed Hitler to rebuild Germany's forces. Give Saddam the chance he will rebuild and use those weapons. Simply keeping Iraq contained is not the answer. Saddam needs to be removed and a new Iraqi government that is free and democratic should be put in place. Prolonging Iraq's containment will not help stabilize the situation. There are times force needs to be taken and this is one of those times.

A new Iraqi Government. I'm wondering if anyone has realy thought about this. There are several options:

1) Remove the baath party from power, and create a democratic government. Result: the tribe wars between Kurds, Shias and Sunnis will start again.

2) Keep the Baath party in power. This way, Iraq will stay united, as it was in the last 24 years. Danger: One of Saddam's sons (we removed Saddam by that time) takes the power, and as generally know, they are more cruel that Saddam himself.

3) Let Saddam stay in power. Result: We all know the result. Just look back to the last 24 years of history of Iraq.

[JoeJoe440]

My favorite is how Iraq claims to not have chemical and biological weapons, then threatens to use chemical and biological weapons against our troops should a war begin.

Moreover, it's amazing how the anti-war crowd can continue to say that there is "no proof" that Iraq has chemical and biological weapons in light of the statement above.

Thats a good point

[PolishAir42]

"Its high time USA stopped acting as policemen of the world, and deal with their own internal issues first. (don't say they have none, they have plenty)

USA is capitalizing on unrest in the middle east to gain control of the oil market there. "

You have no grasp of international politics and economy.

1. If all we want is oil, why didnt we just take it from Kuwait in the first gulf war. We could also lift sanctions on Saddam giving us way cheaper oil. This philosophy has no sense.

2. World policemen? The Europeans couldnt even take care of their own backyard in the Balkans. Do you know who created the Israeli boundary mess? Britain, do you know who created the mess in Vietnam? France...So as far as history is telling if we go back to an isolationist foreign policy this world is going to SUFFER.

And yea why dont we stop pressing on Iraq, we can be just like Chamberlain...appease Hitler....rather than face the facts and truth. What happened in consequences? Only the biggest war in the history of mankind.

[FMS]

I do apologize for the crappy phrasing of my previous sentence:

To the (innocent) people of Iraq and surrounding countries like Israel etc, the USA is a far bigger threat then Saddam Hussein himself.

(But do try to quote in such a way that the original context isn't lost)

I'm just trying to express my fear for the reaction that Hussein might give as an answer to any US agression. In that context, invading Iraq might generate a chain reaction of violence towards neighbouring countries. Thus, an invasion by the US army indirectly threatens peace in the whole midlle east, not only Iraq.
(He has done this during the gulf war, only at that time he "only" fired concrete warheads into Israel.)

Saddam needs to be removed and a new Iraqi government that is free and democratic should be put in place

You actually believe that this will work? Imagine your government being overthrown by some foreign military. A new regime is formed, without any form of elections. They consist of people you have never seen in your life. Despite the fact that they claim to do things in your best interest, you would never put up with this new gov'ment. I know I wouldn't...

Just look at the current situation in Afghanistan, warlords are batteling for pieces of land and civilians bite the dust once again. The left overs of the Taliban regime crawl back together and slowly the old system will be restored. Those who have lost family and friends in the bombing raids will rebel against the whole western world, and terror is born.