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  • N9103M
    replied
    Originally posted by mikecweb
    If its not too much trouble if you have any pictures laying around of the two types you described could you throw those on here.
    This is the FD-109, note the F/D Control Panel on the right side of the pedestal the the lower right of the radar. You can see the F/D in view on the ADI.

    [photoid=5819923]

    This is the FD-108, as said, much less functionality, and you can see the controls are on the ADI itself.

    [photoid=118268]

    And here is the Sperry Dual Cue (Chrosshair) system I referred to on the Delta airplanes. The control panel is off to the side, but there is a pitch command knob on the instrument

    [photoid=64613]

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  • mikecweb
    replied
    Originally posted by N9103M
    Just alleviate confusion later on, I'd reccomend just using one every now and then, just to keep your skills sharp on it. So when you're in a bind flying a turbulent approach to mins you can have it there to help.

    At my carrier we rarely use F/D's too. Our's probably have significantly less functionality than what you have on the Van. Our FD-108's that are on our ex-AA airplanes have a turn knob on the lower right corner of the insturment where you can select HDG, V/L, GS, or OFF. Thats it. They don't even have a pitch command. So they're basically worthless unless capturing a glideslope. The 109's are a bit better, with a pitch knob where you can manually set a pitch attitude or hit a ALT Hold switch.

    So generally from takeoff to the final vector, everything is raw data.

    Compare that to the CRJ where the only time you turned off the F/D was on a visual approach (If you so choose) or when descending below MDA on a non-prescision approach. Of course it had lots of funtionality.

    So my suggestion is just to keep it handy for when you need it. It's a great tool.
    That honestly makes me feel alot better. I think its a good tool but the precision just isn't there at least on the ones we have. I see it as definetly not something to rely on, but just to have in it your bag to help with situational awareness. Even though I haven't been in it that long I've had a few nights where the last leg always has to have that approach down to minimums and its nice to have all the help you can get to get home.
    If its not too much trouble if you have any pictures laying around of the two types you described could you throw those on here.

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  • N9103M
    replied
    Originally posted by mikecweb
    I just don't find them useful. Not yet at least. Grant it we fly approaches pretty fast I guess maybe in the larger jets they become more useful. I know most of the Lear guys we have here don't like them either. Maybe just a culture thing here, who knows.
    Just alleviate confusion later on, I'd reccomend just using one every now and then, just to keep your skills sharp on it. So when you're in a bind flying a turbulent approach to mins you can have it there to help.

    At my carrier we rarely use F/D's too. Our's probably have significantly less functionality than what you have on the Van. Our FD-108's that are on our ex-AA airplanes have a turn knob on the lower right corner of the insturment where you can select HDG, V/L, GS, or OFF. Thats it. They don't even have a pitch command. So they're basically worthless unless capturing a glideslope. The 109's are a bit better, with a pitch knob where you can manually set a pitch attitude or hit a ALT Hold switch.

    So generally from takeoff to the final vector, everything is raw data.

    Compare that to the CRJ where the only time you turned off the F/D was on a visual approach (If you so choose) or when descending below MDA on a non-prescision approach. Of course it had lots of funtionality.

    So my suggestion is just to keep it handy for when you need it. It's a great tool.

    Leave a comment:


  • N9103M
    replied
    Originally posted by LRJet Guy
    The Dash has the two bar Boeing type of FD. I absolutely hated the thing when I first got in the sim. After realizing what it could do and learning how to fly the thing, I fell in love with it.
    Every F/D I had used in aviation was a single cue V-Bar type up until I got hired to fly the 727. The simulator we used was the Delta 727 sim in Atlanta. Thier sim was a dual cue crosshair type Sperry system. I thought I was screwed. It definately takes some getting used to. I even had to adjust to the fact I was looking at a rolling ball, as opposed to a flat card. But after awhile I found the dual cue F/D are a bit more precise and I got very used to it and did fine in training. (Well hell, I passed)

    Then I got out on the line and all we have are Collins FD-109's and 108's! So the whole fleet has the V-Bars! So I had to readjust again, but that was the easy part. I'm just glad I've had exposure to both now.

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  • LRJet Guy
    replied
    Originally posted by mikecweb
    I just don't find them useful. Not yet at least. Grant it we fly approaches pretty fast I guess maybe in the larger jets they become more useful. I know most of the Lear guys we have here don't like them either. Maybe just a culture thing here, who knows.
    That could be because of the usefulness, or uselessness of the flight director itself.

    The first airplane I flew that had one was the Sabreliner. Had the delta type. I didn't like at first either, but ended up really appreciating it after a few hours in the airplane.

    The Dash has the two bar Boeing type of FD. I absolutely hated the thing when I first got in the sim. After realizing what it could do and learning how to fly the thing, I fell in love with it.

    It makes approaches as easy as shooting fish in a barrel. That being said, there are times when I'll cancel the thing and fly raw data.

    Having a TCS button to go along with the FD goes a long way towards making you appreciate it more.

    Leave a comment:


  • AJ
    replied
    Originally posted by YYZPICS
    Another question, usually what is the decision height?
    A go-around in a Cat IIIB approach will usually result in a touchdown with the minima at about 20'RA!

    Leave a comment:


  • mikecweb
    replied
    Originally posted by N9103M
    Hmmm....new freight dog, calling F/D's overrated. Well F/D's have drug my fatigued ass out of a hole when I have had to shoot approaches down to dead nuts minimums after a 16 hour duty day. Assuming they function correctly, they are an integral and very useful piece of equipment.

    And in the more advancd jets, you'd better learn to love the F/D. I enjoy flying raw data just as much as the next guy, but I absolutely love my Flight Director.
    I just don't find them useful. Not yet at least. Grant it we fly approaches pretty fast I guess maybe in the larger jets they become more useful. I know most of the Lear guys we have here don't like them either. Maybe just a culture thing here, who knows.

    Leave a comment:


  • YYZPICS
    replied
    Interesting, thanks.

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  • LRJet Guy
    replied
    Depends on the approach. Standard Cat. 1 ILS is 200 ft. There are several non-standard ones though. Could be due to terrain, lighting systems, runway markings, etc.

    Cat. 2 is 100 ft, and Cat. 3 varies.

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  • YYZPICS
    replied
    Another question, usually what is the decision height?

    Leave a comment:


  • LRJet Guy
    replied
    Originally posted by N9103M
    Hmmm....new freight dog, calling F/D's overrated. Well F/D's have drug my fatigued ass out of a hole when I have had to shoot approaches down to dead nuts minimums after a 16 hour duty day. Assuming they function correctly, they are an integral and very useful piece of equipment.

    And in the more advancd jets, you'd better learn to love the F/D. I enjoy flying raw data just as much as the next guy, but I absolutely love my Flight Director.
    You said a mouthful right there.

    You'll learn Mike.....

    Leave a comment:


  • N9103M
    replied
    Originally posted by mikecweb
    The TOGA buttons on GA aircraft like the Baron just disconnect the autopilot and bring the flight director to wings level and 10 degrees up.
    The van has a TOGA button but I can't imagine why I would ever need it. Flight directors are overrated.
    Hmmm....new freight dog, calling F/D's overrated. Well F/D's have drug my fatigued ass out of a hole when I have had to shoot approaches down to dead nuts minimums after a 16 hour duty day. Assuming they function correctly, they are an integral and very useful piece of equipment.

    And in the more advancd jets, you'd better learn to love the F/D. I enjoy flying raw data just as much as the next guy, but I absolutely love my Flight Director.

    Leave a comment:


  • YYZPICS
    replied
    Great replies, thanks guys.

    Leave a comment:


  • mikecweb
    replied
    Originally posted by Crism
    TOGA WEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!! Does it unlock any power reductions as well? I'm assuming it's not an autothrottle (since I've seen them in Barons before I think)
    The TOGA buttons on GA aircraft like the Baron just disconnect the autopilot and bring the flight director to wings level and 10 degrees up.
    The van has a TOGA button but I can't imagine why I would ever need it. Flight directors are overrated.

    Leave a comment:


  • MCM
    replied
    On the 744 the A/P stays engaged throughout the process. Like Phil says for the 737, there are 2 TO/GA buttons, but both do the same job. A single press gives standard Go Around power in the air (we also press the same button to give us Take Off Power on the ground... hence Take Off Go Around).

    Another press will give full rated power... useful in an emergency.

    Only thing we have to do is retract the gear and flaps, and of course monitor the Autopilot, and engage different modes etc.

    Full rated power makes you go up very quickly

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