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  • Runway 17 (heading 170) and the poet happens to have 170 posts in this forum. At the time of posting this would have been less, but since the actual heading is around 164 degrees it might be a match regardless.
    Please visit my website! http://www.schipholspotter.com/

    Don't make me use uppercase...

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Petertenthije View Post
      Runway 17 (heading 170) and the poet happens to have 170 posts in this forum. At the time of posting this would have been less, but since the actual heading is around 164 degrees it might be a match regardless.
      The Poet says:

      Wow... now there's an unforseen coincidence
      and reward for impressing in this incidence
      will surely follow, sure as eggs are eggs
      but it will only be given once you solve this leg



      Peter, you are absolutely on the right track in terms of the type of commonality - shall we call it "commonumerality"? - and you have identified half of the link, but the one I'm looking to ease out of you is the 'prime' one which is specifically connected to 'The Poet' (rather than the poet)... who is... sitting.... on the flight


      Paul



      All our final decisions are made in a state of mind that is not going to last (Marcel Proust)

      Comment


      • Originally posted by HB-IHC View Post
        Here, have this... the guy in 17F gave me this note for you

        You read the note...

        Peter, Peter, it's good to see you thinking
        Checking the details to see what might be linking
        And for your reward I'll give you this orange
        And once it's peeled you'll have answered the next challenge.
        Got it! The guy in 17F gave a nice poem. So that's where the poet will be sitting. And 17F matches the runway orientation of Ministro Pistarini International Airport.
        Please visit my website! http://www.schipholspotter.com/

        Don't make me use uppercase...

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Petertenthije View Post
          Got it! The guy in 17F gave a nice poem. So that's where the poet will be sitting. And 17F matches the runway orientation of Ministro Pistarini International Airport.
          You are 100% correct in making this "17" connection Peter. Congratulations!!

          ... and I will give you some more evidence for your deduction which might help you when you look for clues in further challenges on this journey...

          These are the first two appearances of a poet in the story:

          Originally posted by HB-IHC View Post

          Will the poet in seat 17F please contact a crew member, thank you.
          Although you wouldn't know for sure if this poet was "The Poet"...

          ... this post reveals that the guy in 17F is more than likely to be "The Poet"...

          Originally posted by HB-IHC View Post
          The Poet says:

          The crew they just told me
          I can talk all I like
          To get us to our destination
          And have a pleasant flight

          I see you are hungry
          For your first major clue
          So when we get to breakfast
          I'll show you a photoooooooooh!
          And Part 1 of this challenge has now confirmed for you that the guy who is sitting in 17F is actually The Poet.

          The Chief FA says:

          Peter, your correct answer has established that The Poet is in seat 17F and, as The Poet suggested to you in his last two rhymes, your very astute and insightful observations have earned you a big reward:

          1) This idea - to know who is sitting where - is an important thing for this journey!

          2) The second part of the challenge has been removed and, instead, you will just be given the information that this would have revealed and which will be necessary for the last part of this challenge which we'll call: "Sweet Seventeen".

          However, please bear with me. The crew are in one of their busiest times and we cannot do this now. Your 'challenging service' will be resumed at the first possible opportunity




          When this challenge is correctly completed, you will receive another HUGE piece of information about our destination airport!


          Paul



          All our final decisions are made in a state of mind that is not going to last (Marcel Proust)

          Comment


          • The crew have been busy dealing with the guy in seat 51D who does nothing else but shout "I want a 61G!" before repeatedly launching into his version of 'God Save The Queen', very loudly, and he has now become so irritating that the woman in 80A (this is a very strange plane!...) finally lost her temper and threatend him with her pet snake (...with some very strange people!) which she had somehow smuggled aboard in her hand luggage.

            The woman in 55H manages to restore calm before the guy in 11B stands up. His name is Hector Decimal and he's old... very old. In fact, he's not a day older or younger than 283 and, being a mathematician, he primed the airline to make sure that he got this particular seat for this auspiscious occassion. Hector, AKA "The Mathematician", is met by the Chief FA who turns to you and introduces him before giving him the floor...

            The Mathematician says:

            Good Morniaftenoovening to you all!

            Before I set your challenge there are one or two things that I want to tell you.

            It's best that you know that me and The Poet are good friends, especially because we both share a real fascination for patterns. Randomness is soooooo boring and irrelevant because nobody could ever make sense of something random - if they could, it wouldn't be random in the first place! - so we both strongly suspect that there is actually no such thing as true 'randomness', anywhere... at all... even if things look random to us.

            Our friend "Mr.ICT" has also told us that it is impossible for a computer to generate a truly random number and we suspect that's because things work in this world on some sort of order, whether we see it or not.

            Anyway, enough philosophy - it's (not really) amazing how many of my mathematician colleagues down the centuries are both Mathematicians and Philosophers!

            I think I should tell you that The Poet is actually sitting in one of the seats in the row which is my favourite number but, today, as I hear you've been told, I have booked a very special seat. Enough about me though, what about mathematics?...

            ... well, I thought I'd give you some background information for this challenge, the first part of which is just plain interesting (and plane-interesting) and the second part of which I'll put under the Challenge heading because you will have to consider that to be able to crack it.

            Now, it is a fact, that if it wasn't for Geometry we wouldn't have the commercial air transport system we have today. Apparently, Socrates said that Thales (pronounced Tal-ees) was the "Father of Geometry" and that's why one of today's leading aerospace companies bears his name. I won't go into how well connected the company is throughout the world because you can Google them if you're interested but, since you've already used a little bit of Geometry in Challenge 4, this challenge is going to be a lot more basic...

            ... well "basic" in terms of the focus falling on the very building blocks of numbers themselves, whatever number system you happen to be using.

            You don't have to be a brilliant mathematician to realise that mathematics is full of order, logic and patterns, but the really strange thing - and I mean really, really strange thing - is that when you look slightly deeper into the simpler things they're very often incredibly difficult to understand.

            For example, it is fairly easy to "prove" that 1 + 1 = 3. All you have to do is make a false assumption and you can get there in few moves but, in contrast, it is only recently in human history that anyone has actually given a valid proof for 1 + 1 = 2.

            Amazingly, or not as the case may be, this proof runs into many pages and, BTW, it's far too clever and far too much hard work for me to worry about... I'll comfort myself with the well known saying: "good mathematicians are lazy"... although I don't think my interpretation is what the saying means

            Anyway, enough of that, I better get you focussing on the area that you need to be looking at for this challenge which is connected to the "Holy Grail" of mathematics... trying to understand the seemingly random distribution of prime numbers.

            The challenge will follow shortly, but I believe the Chief FA wants a quick word...

            The Chief FA says:

            To make sure that you are focussed on what you need to do now, I'd better tell you that most of what you've heard above is very important for later - not now particularily. Of course, you can do whatever you want in whatever way you want, but I would recommend that you especially keep details of who is sitting where on this flight and what they might or might not be doing, because if no-one gets us to this airport quickly, you will potentially need to know any or all of these details if you're ever going to solve the challenges later on.

            Before I hand you back to The Mathematician, would the International Olympic Commitee please vacate 10C!... you are ruining the upholstry!!



            The Mathematician will address you shortly with Challenge 101 Part 11, ....

            .... oops, sorry, force of habit I picked up from "Mr.ICT"... I must remember to speak decimal!... after all, the seats are all numbered in alpha-numeric-decimal....

            ... that's; Challenge 5, Part 3


            Thank you.
            Last edited by HB-IHC; 2009-11-14, 10:59. Reason: Correct a wong number!



            All our final decisions are made in a state of mind that is not going to last (Marcel Proust)

            Comment


            • Originally posted by HB-IHC View Post
              The Goose Keeper says:

              Ooooer, crazy isn't good LH-B744 - autopilot for a while?

              You don't have to worry about the types any more because they have served their purpose in telling you something about the airport. Check the recent replies to Peter - they hold all the information you need.

              The Poet says:

              LH-B744
              A plane I adore
              But Opa-Locka
              Is like Mocca Chocca




              Es tut mir leid, aber Opa Locka ist den falschen Flugplatz


              Translation?... cut and paste (German to what ever you like) here: http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_txt
              (NB: "Opa" in German means "Grandpa"... the statement and translation are not cryptic (i.e. not a puzzle))



              Paul







              The Poet says:


              Peter you solicit an apology from me
              The labels were faulty, as you said - both said "sea"
              So for this one deed, of pointing it out
              I'll reward your correctness with information of clout

              I don't want anybody to waste time being curious
              About information that's wrong, especially when not serious
              I understand why you, have questioned this thing
              It shows superb sleuth work, the best I have seen

              And put, as you have, in verse eloquent
              My pleasure it is, to give my consent
              To grant a reward for all your tenacity...
              ... the State of this airport is not Mississippi!


              Superb Peter


              Paul


              Important Amendment: the labels on the trout images (below or above depending on how you organise your threads) have been changed to what they should have been in the first place. Apologies for this "Red Herring"!.. 'twas merely a simple mistake to label them "Salt Water" and "Sea Water". Thanks to Super-Sleuth, Peter, for a very astute enquiry on that!...

              ... and, as you can all see, you have all been richly rewarded for his work!
              So an old british man is earnin more posts than I have? Ok, Paul, let me see who finally has the answer. I'll have a mocca (or two) until then.
              That's what airlines are good for, amongst others,
              The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
              And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
              Aviation enthusiast, since more than 35 years with home airport EDDL.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by LH-B744 View Post
                Ok, Paul, let me see who finally has the answer. I'll have a mocca (or two) until then.
                The Chief FA says:

                Aaaah, LH-B744... great to see you're onboard!

                I see you transferred with us from New Orleans Lakefront Airport so I hope the service, and especially the coffee-chocolate combo, has been to your liking!

                Mmmm, I also see that you're ready for this challenge so, without further ado, I'll pass you over to The Mathematician who, I know, has got it ready for you.



                Challenge 5: "Sweet Seventeen" AKA "Prime of Life"



                The Mathematician says:


                Now, we mathematicians have a reputation for being untidy but, let me tell you, it's a paradox. We don't discover anything if we're untidy 'number sleuths' so allow me to make a suggestion for this challenge which you might find helpful in your quest...


                Hector Decimal is distracted by the woman in 50B who cries every now and then and who has started up again...

                ..."Mmmm" he thinks... "I wonder why?" and, in an instant, he has the logical answer. With problem solved, he turns to you again to continue...



                The Mathematician says:


                ... for this you will need a piece of A4 or US letter sized paper, a "bic"... sorry, it's a force of habit which I picked up from "The Stationer"... of course a "bic" is just one type of pen.... let me start again...

                Here is some information that you need to know and, us mathematicians being very particular, I'm going to be very clear so that we all know what I mean and what you have to focus on if you are going to crack this challenge.

                For this you will need a sheet of A4 or US Letter sized paper, a pen, a pencil and an eraser. I strongly suggest you use the pen for the numbers and the pencil / eraser for your number detective work.

                I'm sure you all know that a prime number is a number which can only be divided equally by two particular numbers (i.e. it has two 'factors'): itself and the number 1. For example, 4 has three factors: 1, 2 and 4, so it isn't a prime number, whereas 7 only has two factors: 7 (itself) and 1, so it is a prime. Lots of people think that 1 is the first prime but, if you use logic, you'll know that it can't be because 1 is itself so it can only be divided by one number, not two.

                The first prime is therefore the number 2 (factors = 2 and 1) and, although you could use The Sieve of Eratosthenes (pronounced Ee-ra-toss-te-nees) to find the next prime... and the one after that... the one after that, and... etc. if you want to, you don't have to... these days.

                You can decided how you want to do that and I'll be more than happy to explain The Sieve of Eratosthenes to you if you want to use it but, in any case, whether you use it or use another method you will still have to continue to work meticulously, systematically and neatly to be able to see the solution to the challenge.

                For this challenge, you are going to plot all the numbers between 17 and 283 (Oh... did you notice that both those numbers aren't random?) on your sheet of paper which will give you a sort of 'number map'. This will be ever, ever so useful if it is done neatly and methodically, primarily because it will reveal a number pattern which is so curious that no mathematician can explain it.

                Of course, I know that you know that there is a pattern - because I've just told you there is - but I also know that you won't see it straight away... but then, you are detectives!


                Here's what you need to do...

                1. Take the paper and allow room for 17 rows of numbers vertically of 17 (3 digit) numbers horizontally (slightly more or less is OK).
                2. Write the number 17 at the centre.
                3. write 18 to the right of it
                4. write 19 above 18
                5. write 20 next to 19 and above 17
                6. write 21 to the left of 20
                7. write 22 below 21 and next to 17
                8. write 23 below 22
                9. write 24 next to 23 and underneath 17
                10. write 25 next to 24 and under 18
                11. write 26 to the right of 25
                12. write 27 above 26 and next to 18

                ... continue this spiral pattern until you have got to 11B (Oh, Hector... talk in DECIMAL!)... sorry, until you have got to 283.


                Your challenge is: What is the curious pattern that is revealed?


                Your answer will: oblige the crew to direct you to a Google Earth location which, once you are there, will reveal a very useful piece of information about our destination airport.


                If you are stuck: on what to do, the crew will assist you on receipt of any sleuthlike questions.



                The Mathematician goes over to the guy in 81C to get another biro and leaves you to your challenge.
                Last edited by HB-IHC; 2009-11-14, 10:46.



                All our final decisions are made in a state of mind that is not going to last (Marcel Proust)

                Comment


                • The grid as explained. I highlighted the prime numbers in yellow. The green cells are also primes, but they have been used for the Google Earth location reading bottom left to top right.




                  I hope everyone packed warmly, we end up in the middle of the antarctic. It's a tad chilly, but at least Paul will now find out what happens to dead penguins.

                  Please visit my website! http://www.schipholspotter.com/

                  Don't make me use uppercase...

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Petertenthije View Post
                    The grid as explained. I highlighted the prime numbers in yellow. The green cells are also primes, but they have been used for the Google Earth location reading bottom left to top right.




                    I hope everyone packed warmly, we end up in the middle of the antarctic. It's a tad chilly, but at least Paul will now find out what happens to dead penguins.

                    The FA says:

                    So, you were all well and truly primed on this task and your search area is about to become a lot narrower.

                    The Poet says:

                    What a witty chap you are
                    A real detective star
                    And numbers I see you like
                    So the crew will serve you right

                    The FA says:

                    I do like humour!… I mean a real ‘sense’ of humour rather than jokes which work on the same hooks all the time… and, quite apart from having a good at your amusing illustration Peter, Paul is looking forward very much to solving this penguin conundrum some other time. He can feel his feathers rustling already but, for now, I believe there is a problem that Hector Decimal has found. I'll pass you over to him.

                    The Mathematician says:

                    Before the crew can give you direction to a Google Earth location, they told me I have to mark your work and make sure it's correct. This is, after all, mathematics.

                    There are a few problems… with this answer.

                    Now, I’m not being ‘picky’… BTW, we still haven’t seen Brian “The Green” Whitelegg recently, I hope he’s OK and ordering plenty "Number 17s for two people" with a side order of 33 (or would that be 3 side orders of 11?) and some crispy pancake rolls…

                    … anyway, I’m not being picky - in fact I'm being very un-picky - because I will accept Peter's grid and description as the answer even though it's a bit like answering the question like this:



                    (Now, that’s what I like about kids. They’re seriously funny!)

                    After all, the question was: What is the curious pattern that is revealed?, not Can you show and describe your work to me?...

                    ... but, as I said, I will accept it................................ if it is correct.

                    Of course, I will be kind, but if I told you what the problem was I’d just be doing your detective work for you so you sleuths now have some self-detect work to do to make sure that the answer given, is actually correct.

                    BTW, if you go off and check the work now, before you’ve listened to everything else I have to say, it will be at your own peril.

                    I've found a bit of a ‘silly’ mistake that, Peter, you will probably kick yourself for (I do it all the time!), and because I am accepting the grid as an answer, and because the answer is incorrect, you have incurred a penalty which requires

                    1. Location of the problem I have found.
                    2. An explanation after I have verified that you have, actually, found the problem that I have.

                    I strongly recommend you do not try to explain the problem too much when you find it, just tell me what it is and why it is incorrect.

                    Why?... because you do not know what, exactly, I am going to ask you to explain and, if we don’t clear this simple error up now, the risk is that will be a lot of Goose Chasing going on and you know what happens when The Goose Keeper has to get involved. It takes time... a lot of time, and he is down there, in the cargo hold but he's getting very worried that some of his geese might get chased.

                    So, once you have located the problem, report back and complete the sentence below.

                    One last thing, and this is as important as anything else: I also have to say that I am a lazy mathematician. If I see one wrong thing, I don’t bother checking everything else until that problem is fixed because I don’t like making 1 + 1 = 3 or wasting my energy on things that I know are incorrect, so you need to make sure I don’t find any other problems once you've cleared this up because this is, after all, mathematics.


                    OK JP.Dets,

                    Complete this sentence: “_______ is not correct because it ___________________________________”

                    Hint: all the text you need will fit in the spaces. If it doesn't, you're at risk of going off on a Wild Goose Chase.



                    60D surveys the scene and twiddles his fingers, constantly waiting for his fingerprints to be revealed while the baby in 81B is being given some food.
                    Last edited by HB-IHC; 2009-11-14, 16:46.



                    All our final decisions are made in a state of mind that is not going to last (Marcel Proust)

                    Comment


                    • "#189 is not correct because it is not a prime number”

                      Answered wtih room to spare!

                      That's, at least so far, the only flaw i can find. And 189 is not even related to the coordinates used on G-Earth.
                      Please visit my website! http://www.schipholspotter.com/

                      Don't make me use uppercase...

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Petertenthije View Post
                        "#189 is not correct because it is not a prime number

                        The Mathematician says:

                        Correct, 189 is not a prime number.


                        The Goose Keeper says:

                        Originally posted by Petertenthije View Post
                        And 189 is not even related to the coordinates used on G-Earth.
                        That's the second time I heard Google Earth co-ordinates being mentioned on this question and they're not even related to the question!

                        They're my geese!... any more of that and I'll let you chase them until you really just have to let me tidy the place up!


                        Oooer, The Goose Keeper is here, and he's not too happy. 60B looks at the The Goose Keeper in amazement . "Blimey o.Reilly" he says, "me cousin's doin' me job fa me. I fink I'll sit back an' enjoy this".


                        The Mathematician says:


                        You are very close to gaining a HUGE piece of information about this airport but you are now finding out just how expensive this episode has been.


                        The answer to the question that was given is:


                        The prime numbers tend to lie on diagional lines (go on, draw lines between them!)


                        That would have been a completely acceptable answer.


                        You might have also said about the very large diagonal from bottom left to top right, and this would have been acceptable enough


                        As an aside, this line doesn't appear if you start on other primes in that table and that's one, smaller, reason why it's my favourite number. There is a MEGA-HUGE reason why it's my favourite number, but you haven't got all day for me to tell you why


                        However, we are now in this penalty phase and while I check the rest of Peter's answer, you JP.Det sleuths need to dig this out of the hole it's fallen into. You need to get to work on a proof.

                        Nothing else in this world, ever, is 100% accurate apart from mathematical proof. It leaves no stone untscrutinised and works 100% of the time for 100% of the number set it is concerned with (and don't forget, numbers are infinite).


                        Here's some guidance (if you need it):


                        1. Examples are not mathematical proof

                        For example, if you tell me that you found out that 189 isn't a prime on the internet, I will tell you "I found a picture of a six-headed goat on the internet - try again", because that isn't proof.

                        2. Assumptions do not form part of mathematical proof

                        For example, just because something works 10 / 100 / 1,000 / 1,000,000 etc. times it is never accepted as saying "it always works".

                        3. Generalities aren't mathematical proof

                        For example, if you tell me that 189 is like 2, I'll tell you "so is 188 - try again".

                        Or maybe you'll tell me a proof that fits but which isn't 100% correct for every situation. That still isn't proof.


                        Your proof must be

                        1. Absolutely true for every concievable interpretation of what it says
                        2. Unambiguous


                        You can do this mostly by using numbers, although you will have to establish the facts, and I mean facts as in 100% fact, first.


                        Although I will feed back to you if you need me to, you will not be handed back to the crew for your Google Earth instructions until you have made the complete proof explicit, without me having to correct it.

                        If you need a starter, you will have to ask for it, but you have all the information you need on this thread.



                        So, while I check the rest of the answer...


                        Dear JP.Dets: 189 is not a prime number. Prove it.


                        60D is looking at His fingerprints and thinking "mmm, expensive error to not answer the simple question in the first place" while 81B is still oblivious to the problems in the cabin.
                        Last edited by HB-IHC; 2009-11-14, 19:26.



                        All our final decisions are made in a state of mind that is not going to last (Marcel Proust)

                        Comment




                        • Here's all possible divisions of the number 189. Divide the number 189 with 3, 7, 9, 21, 27 or 63 and the result will be a round number. This means it is not a prime number. A prime number would never get a round number, unless divided by 1 or by itself. That's also why I did not highlight 1 or 189.


                          I apologise for waking the goose keeper. Though I can not help but wonder how he got from the hold to the passenger cabin. Or indeed how he even noticed me chasing his geese, considering he is in the hold and not up with the passengers.


                          p.s. If you want the answer with more decimals please let me know.


                          Originally posted by HB-IHC
                          There is a MEGA-HUGE reason why it's my favourite number, but you haven't got all day for me to tell you why
                          Actually, as you might have noticed, I have little better to do. So if you don't have all day today, maybe tomorrow?
                          Please visit my website! http://www.schipholspotter.com/

                          Don't make me use uppercase...

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Petertenthije View Post
                            Actually, as you might have noticed, I have little better to do. So if you don't have all day today, maybe tomorrow?
                            The Crew say:


                            Originally posted by Petertenthije View Post
                            I apologise for waking the goose keeper. Though I can not help but wonder how he got from the hold to the passenger cabin. Or
                            indeed how he even noticed me chasing his geese, considering he is in the hold and not up with the passengers.
                            The Chief FA says:

                            Who said anything about the Goose Keeper being upstairs in the cabin? Can't you see that ...
                            Originally posted by HB-IHC View Post
                            ...you JP.Det sleuths need to dig this out of the hole it's fallen into.
                            ???????????????????????????????????

                            You're lucky that Brian o' Bleary the BrianAir Boss is busy surveying the damage but don't you rememeber kicking the Ume out of the Ass on Google Earth?... no?... well, let me tell you what happened.

                            The Ass went wild, stamped on the floor of this triple decked Airbus A999, and put a dirty great big hole in the floor down to the pressurised cargo hold, big enough for the the guy in 81G who, coincidentally, has the same name as a Free song, to fall through.

                            Your answer promptly fell through the hole with you still holding on to it, you landed on top of the geese, they scattered and, if that wasn't enough, you chased them!

                            Do you have amnesia or is it just the way you walk sir?

                            Oh, don't answer that.. we'll all get into chasing geese otherwise and, more importantly, you want this piece of information about the airport and The Mathematician has marked your work. Here it is....




                            The Mathematician says:

                            Too long winded. What if the number was 8000?


                            Originally posted by Petertenthije View Post
                            Here's all possible divisions of the number 189.
                            The Mathematician says:

                            Not true.


                            Originally posted by Petertenthije View Post
                            Divide the number 189 with 3, 7, 9, 21, 27 or 63 and the result will be a round number. This means it is not a prime number. A prime number would never get a round number, unless divided by 1 or by itself.
                            The Mathematician says:

                            Correct, but very long winded for what is needed.

                            I'm also not impressed by the use of anything other than logic and known mathematical relationships. The likes of Euler, Fermat and Newton et al proved incredibly difficult theorems without ICT, and that's what mathematical proof is about. If you use ICT to demonstrate something, you have to prove that what the ICT is demonstrating is correct otherwise you are asking me to assume that the mathematics you have demonstrated in the ICT is correct. Proof has no assumption.


                            Originally posted by Petertenthije View Post
                            That's also why I did not highlight 1 or 189.
                            The Mathematician says:

                            Ambiguous


                            Originally posted by Petertenthije View Post
                            p.s. If you want the answer with more decimals please let me know.
                            The Mathematician says:

                            No thank you, the number of decimal places is irrelevant , although, they're not if you use a spreadsheet etc.... because of rounding errors.

                            Proof doesn't have errors. None. Zero. Zilch. Not a sausage for an error, or a dead parrot, or even a Zebrerror. Nowt, Nichts, Ueberhaupt kein Falscheit....



                            Tidy it up, especially the more obvious things, and I'll help you some more.
                            Last edited by HB-IHC; 2009-11-15, 00:04.



                            All our final decisions are made in a state of mind that is not going to last (Marcel Proust)

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by HB-IHC View Post
                              The Mathematician says:
                              Too long winded. What if the number was 8000?
                              Then I would have known of hand it was not a prime number, it's an even number and they are never a prime except for number 2.




                              Originally posted by HB-IHC View Post
                              Originally posted by petertenthije
                              Here's all possible divisions of the number 189.
                              The Mathematician says:

                              Not true.
                              It is true, all round numbers from 1 to 189. My apologies for not specifying I only included round numbers. However, since I am talking to a professional mathematician I felt that warranted to explanation. It's the law of primes.



                              Originally posted by HB-IHC View Post
                              The Mathematician says:

                              Correct, but very long winded for what is needed.
                              For this particular challenge you specified no limit on the size of the answer. Your mistake.




                              Originally posted by HB-IHC View Post
                              I'm also not impressed by the use of anything other than logic and known mathematical relationships. The likes of Euler, Fermat and Newton et al proved incredibly difficult theorems without ICT, and that's what mathematical proof is about.
                              You got me at a disadvantage here. I'm not a mathematician nor a native English speaker. Would it help if I told you I could explain it in technical Dutch? You know, the kind of Dutch that online translation programs like Babelfish can't process? Cause I don't mind to write some double or even tripple Dutch. Even prime Dutch should you so prefer.




                              Originally posted by HB-IHC View Post
                              Proof doesn't have errors. None. Zero. Zilch. Not a sausage for an error, or a dead parrot, or even a Zebrerror. Nowt, Nichts, Ueberhaupt kein Falscheit....
                              Good, then look again at the second spreadsheet I sent and look at the yellow highlighted cells. They show that 189 can be divided by the round figures of 3, 7, 9, 21, 27 and 63 and you get a round answer. That's all the proof you're gonna get.




                              On a related note, the passenger in 33K and 601NK (itīs a big plane) discovered an airlock on the plane. It's odd that the designers added such a potentially dangerous feature, but then the designers of the plane have already been proven by the crew as being rather stoned while building the plane. Anyway, the passenger in 33K and 601NK have tossed the mathematician in the airlock. The mathematician must have realised he had pushed the passengers a bit too far with his rambling as he was shouting "I'm sorry, you where right, and very handsome and eloquent as well, and your spreadsheets looked ace...". However, all his last minute sucking up was in vain. The passengers in 33K and 601NK pushed the flush button. The mathematician said EEK before doing BOINK. Alas, if only he had thought of donning the parachute Brian left behind. The 20000ft fall might then not have proven that fatal. Ooh well, it is said that many of the sharpest minds in history had zero social skills. Our mathematician must have had the same problem.

                              Fortunately the airlock avoided any damage to the plane.

                              And herewith ended todays lesson in why not to piss of the passengers in 33K and 601NK. No doubt there will be some police waiting at the tropical paradise we're headed, but there could be worse places to get jailed.
                              Please visit my website! http://www.schipholspotter.com/

                              Don't make me use uppercase...

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                              • Originally posted by Petertenthije View Post
                                Then I would have known of hand it was not a prime number, it's an even number and they are never a prime except for number 2.
                                Yes, precisely, and what about 8001 or 256973 etc. ... the point was that using ICT is... never mind, it hardly matters any more.

                                Originally posted by Petertenthije View Post
                                It is true, all round numbers from 1 to 189.
                                Correct, it is true... now. And that was the challenge.


                                Originally posted by Petertenthije View Post
                                For this particular challenge you specified no limit on the size of the answer. Your mistake.
                                Correct, no size limit, and neither was I saying you were wrong, but I don't think ther's any point in explaining anything else.

                                Originally posted by Petertenthije View Post
                                You got me at a disadvantage here. I'm not a mathematician nor a native English speaker.
                                My view is that if we can add then we are mathematicians, and what potential people have is an unknown. As you know, in spite of you having fantastic English I'm fully aware that I have an advantage there.

                                But, that doesn't mean I'm not at a disadvantage also. However hard I try to pin down meaning with that in mind, I can never know if that is the meaning that is taken until I hear back from you, or that what you mean is how I read your words. As in this challenge, it was actually quite difficult to get behind what you meant, so I tried to get it all simplified because I can't read minds.

                                Point noted though: no more maths (mmm, The Mathematician says: that's impossible) even though it's a universal language.

                                I try to keep it simple, not too subtle, plenty of explicit clues and explanations and not too technical or over complicated but, I guess, as hard as I tried to make the challenge clear and obvious, I failed to carry it off. I suppose its just as well that success and failure aren't that important for me.

                                Originally posted by Petertenthije View Post
                                Good, then look again at the second spreadsheet I sent and look at the yellow highlighted cells. They show that 189 can be divided by the round figures of 3, 7, 9, 21, 27 and 63 and you get a round answer. That's all the proof you're gonna get.
                                And, apart from the spreadsheet which... oh hell, no worries, we'll ignore it because we're not going to get to the bottom of what you mean any more than we'll get to the bottom of what I mean.

                                So... what you're basically saying is:

                                A prime number can only be divided equally by itself and 1.
                                189 can be divided equally by 3, so it isn't a prime.

                                Well done.


                                Originally posted by Petertenthije View Post
                                it is said that many of the sharpest minds in history had zero social skills. Our mathematician must have had the same problem.

                                The Mathematician says:

                                Mmmm, there's a problem with the second sentence. It's not true.


                                The Chief FA says:

                                Well, I guess it's time to close the blinds and get everyone tucked in but wait, what's this?....


                                Originally posted by Petertenthije View Post
                                And herewith ended todays lesson in why not to piss of the passengers in 33K and 601NK. No doubt there will be some police waiting at the tropical paradise we're headed, but there could be worse places to get jailed.
                                ... awe, and all I wanted to do was to solve a problem.

                                Obviously, I fai....



                                All our final decisions are made in a state of mind that is not going to last (Marcel Proust)

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