User Profile

[3WE]

I can still imagine the system breaking down.

At ATL, yeah sure, you're almost always using all the runways and the traffic flow is kind of logical.

At DCA, here you have Runway 4 rarely used. That means tower controllers are not_used to watching runway 4 and ground controllers are used to clearing folks across it.

Before all the end-around taxiways were built (or faked on the South side of ATL, I remember DFW and ATL controllers lining up folks along the inner (takeoff) runway turnoffs. When they'd hit a gap (or make a gap), I THOUGHT ground would give each plane it's own crossing instruction. (Was this really the tower guy?)

There's also some variability at Flyover. 6-24 is rarely used. When it is used, not sure how the ATC guys work. Even in the olden TWA busy days, I recall guys getting cleared to the ramp, across the (then) southern runway with the tower controller saying "with me".

Nevertheless, good...

[3WE]

Since I want to be taken seriously on this forum, what do we think about getting controllers to adopt this concept?:

https://youtu.be/9LmdUz3rOQU?si=Xlp4SyLCrrHNfK6L (Search Japanese train operator calling and pointing)

And remember, these guys really only have to do two things speed up, or slow down, (Even though they suck at slowing down) unlike pilots or controllers.

The local and ground controller sit In view of each other, first making conspicuous, pointing sweep of the runway(s), point at the plane and then a big forward point as they give clearance, Clarence.

You even do this in IMC- not pointing at a visible aircraft- but pointing where the aircraft are basically located (or at a radar depiction).

The more I think about it, there's a nice short list of hand gestures- Ground dude holds a stop hand, and then swishes multiple planes across the runway (ATL and DFW before end-around taxiways), Same for the tower controller:...

[3WE]

The key thing this adds is pilot situational awareness. The tower will still screw up, but four (or more) additional people hear "cleared across" AND "cleared for takeoff".

Devils advocate mode: Like Bert mentioned, sometimes planes taxi in on the tower frequency, so it’s not super weird, for the tower frequency to handle some taxiing and additionally, I always wondered about hitting the outer marker, flapping, gearing, getting the power fine tuned for descent, weight and winds and checklisting and reviewing minimums and MAPs, and telling the hosties to sit down AND NOW I HAVE TO TUNE THE TOWER…. Surely a frequency change while taxiing is not_worse....

[3WE]

You did recognize I was being sarcastic???

That being said, sitting in front of my keyboard at Flyover, I can see this depiction of DCA right now (bottom of page). It's not perfectly accurate, but it wouldn't take much to

1) Make it meaningfully accurate.
2) Develop a system where the controller clicks on a plane and issues takeoff clearance (or crossing clearance or landing clearance).
3) The system then makes "the cleared airplane" a flashing red color and draws a red line out ahead of it.
4) The controllers watch this on a nice big TV screen.
5) Let's add some Airbus computer code that analyzes the movements and sets off blinking and beeping lights if a problem appears.
6) And yeah, you put that same (smaller) view in "your" cockpit so your PNF can peek at it and make sure things are OK.

It's ok with me if you don't like it, but the real concern, is that if some asshat parlour talker with an ag...

[3WE]

Yeah, no style points on that one.

We better get to work on AI-ATC and upgrade TCAS/ADSB+AI to handle ground as well as air, and let it operate the planes, too.

[3WE]

I would add:

A strongly black and white thinker, with a sterile-bubble mentality, generally exhibiting a bias that pilots and fundamental airmanship are bad, acronyms are good, Airbus is Devine, and who has no concept of operating a moving vehicle (tricycles to A-380s), except for maybe his desk chair to and from his keyboard to save the aviation industry from itself…Correction: It’s doubtful his chair has wheels....

[3WE]

To be serious for a moment: I seriously doubt that this forum is taken all that seriously…...

[3WE]

En effet!...

[3WE]

I’m not sure I’ll agree that Airbus is “wild and frequent”, and that 40 degree flaps are not a problem, especially since engineers undid them on a range of x72x airplanes.

What bugs me more is what Airbus does to pilots- Evan starts spouting systems and modes and guy’s utter stuff like “But I’ve been pulling up the whole time, while neither him nor his partner can keep a mechanically sound plane in a fat, dumb and happy cruise.

Then again, we have pilots who can’t hand-land a 777 on a beautiful Sunday afternoon when low-time student pilots should be out shooting landings.

[Shoulder shrug emoji]

[3WE]

Just to play Devils advocate are you prepared to say the 320+/- is worse than other aircraft?

737s where the rudder might reverse, or the trim starts cranking down…

DC-9s where the horizontal stabilizer cuts loose to enable inverted flight or the circuit breaker pops the spoilers, and rudder authority goes to hell during reverse thrust?

727s where 40 degrees of flaps can get you in trouble on the drag curve?

DC 10s who’s controls do crazy things depending on cargo latches, flying compressor blades, or engines that smack the upper wing surface.

L-1011s where you can insidiously disconnect the autopilot....

[3WE]

And he solved it using Tomahawk procedures. I told him 172 procedures would work also, but he told me that was dumb and that it must be done using type-specific procedures.

By the way, did you shove over much like the guys in our long-forgotten topic in the original post?...

[3WE]

When watching folks land airliners in normal weather, I’m generally impressed with the frequency and extent of the control movement while the view out the windscreen (or from 24A) is seems much calmer.

This is for sticks and steering wheels both.

For really bumpy days, I can imagine sticks and yokes getting very close to the stops and getting totally there during the worst winds.

Yes, ‘imagine’ is a key word....

[3WE]

https://youtu.be/PEy6968xO-I?si=6hS6juSTVCXPSSOb...

[3WE]

What airplanes are you talking about?



The airplane doesn’t matter. That being said there’s systems that go into different, gray, overlapping buckets:

1. That’s nasty and insidious and could really trick someone.
2. A potential trap but as long as you aren’t stupid…
3. What the phugoid are they thinking?
4. Oh shit, that SEEMS like a solid idea, but…

I had a buddy on a Value Jet DC-9 at Nashville when the guy pulled the cumulonimbus for the pressurization as they crossed the fence and caused the spoilers to pop.

The resulting landing was excellent and paperwork, including a final report, ensued.


When I read some of this Airbus stuff, it seems kind of weird. (Your aileron authority getting chopped in half…a system where you might learn to let go of the stick right after takeoff)

I don’t object to an nose-down trimmer either, but don’t tell the pilots, attach it to only one...

[3WE]

Evan, who is not_a pilot, thinks all pilots are stupid and that Airbus is perfect.

Ok, I exaggerated a little.

I watched the movie, and thought it made some interesting points. Sure, there’s a counter argument that it’s easier to criticize than it is design airplanes, and the counter counter argument that companies will spin things to make themselves look good.

There was an interesting MCAS-like story of pilots not_being told that an unlevel landing would make it totally impossible to deploy the spoilers, but Evan has spoken, and that was the stupid cowboy monkey pilots’ fault....

[3WE]

...

[3WE]

This is not directed at Bert, but the entire conversation. That damn that “plane” is always monkeying with pilots inputs… whoops, I need some extra flare…I’m sorry, Bert, additional elevator input is not available when in flare mode C-14blo100frrdalt on Wednesdays between 1400 and 2400Z. ...

[3WE]

What does 3BS want to know?




































Whose idea it was to not_watch the airspeed? I’m telling you, that crap is important, especially when you are close to the ground…Hui Theiu Lo, Ho Lee Phouc....

[3WE]

Especially when Cessna proficiency is a glaring solution and consistent with fundamental rules which are in no way secondary to spewing acronyms....

[3WE]

Great discussion.

I am not seeing where watching the nose or AI or flight director and keeping hands on controls BECAUSE THIS IS A SORT OF CRITICAL FLIGHT PHASE is part of said discussion.

More of a highly-accurate regurgitation of cryptic procedures.

JMAHO....