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3WE
3WE
Senior Member
Last Activity: 2024-03-17, 21:22
Joined: 2008-01-18
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  • Electric motor works a mechanical linkage to a control surface…arguably conventional setup…(yes, the font might be a tad blue.)...
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  • 3WE
    replied to Not_Delta 191
    That does not address the very significant inconsistencies that are evident....
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  • 3WE
    replied to Not_Delta 191
    I should note that the aircraft from the NW was probably ahead of that purple cell, but the aircraft landing on 30 was just landing and very likely went straight through the cell on final.

    Then the stark contrast of the dude touring Central IL…

    These were all rapidly developing, dynamic storms with hail and tornadoes common. I acknowledge that the true severe ones probably weren’t penetrated and that we aren’t actually landing with storms over the MM, but we ain’t all staying 25 miles away either.
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  • 3WE
    replied to Not_Delta 191
    I still think that we have rather inconsistent procedures with respect to storm avoidance.



    ...
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  • SUPPOSEDLY:

    Hostie brings pilots “the fish.”

    They bump a guarded switch on the back of the pilot seat.

    The pilot seat begins moving forward.

    Shoves the pilot into the control column.

    Dive ensues.

    Commentary:

    It’s a completely different kind of MCAS, altogether.​
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  • Disconcur…the doors are advancing
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  • ...
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  • 3WE
    replied to Not_Delta 191
    I thought you might comment on a YouTube I posted further up.

    https://youtu.be/D5CLNC1kPsQ?si=nVlbrCm4gaxHiAJl

    I recognize there’s three things in these guys favor:

    1. A chunk of altitude.
    2. A nicely configured airplane in climb mode
    3. An area of storms known for updrafts…(although, you can’t rule out an RFD.)


    But, I’m not sure we are always avoiding these messes, even today.

    Footnote: I’m not sure the wall-cloud perv is correct saying “through” as opposed to right phugoiding next to it....
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  • 3WE
    replied to Not_Delta 191
    While you guys have fun with your ‘Bus automations, is anyone (Evan in particular) thinking about how the DC-9-31 doesn’t have cryptic protections and contexts and engine protection, and apparently it can be a bit of an ankle-biter around stalls.

    https://youtu.be/L2CsO-Vu7oc?si=YqzLza4MbRk-GhF0

    Man, this sounds kind of type specific, too....
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  • 3WE
    replied to Not_Delta 191
    As long as we can throw the pilots under the Bus, we are good!...
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  • 3WE
    replied to Not_Delta 191
    Remember- we’re talking Airbus.

    1. Push a cryptic coded button (WR(weather response)5.2).

    2. Inform ATC.

    3. Request a fancy caffeinated beverage and croissant from hosties.

    4. Complete go-around report for submission to the PR and weenie management to address any social media flare ups and to pilots demerit bucket at HR and send via ACARS.

    5. Check aircraft instrumentation to assure that the AI isn’t hallucinating....
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  • 3WE
    replied to Not_Delta 191
    No we don’t stop that topic of conversation. (The dot is a period).

    That topic is extremely relevant to going slow and pulling up hard in severe turbulence.

    Going slow and pulling up is a procedure to stall. Any number of wrong gusts (including the highly likely tailwind) can have you stalled and dropping a wing.

    And what the phugoid is the procedure if you get too slow or the stick shaker activates.

    If you are getting close to 120 knots and your speed is dropping I’m not faulting a brief shove over or a comment to do so. If you stall you aren’t gaining any precious altitude and if you expect to pull up steeply from a 2000 FPM descent, I’m not faulting a few extra knots.

    Your easy chair isn’t going anywhere if your MSFS plane screws in…their chair is going 120 knots and they are almost out of airspeed, altitude and ideas.

    Bobby’s joke above: Snide grin achieved....
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  • 3WE
    replied to Not_Delta 191
    Thanks for joining the discussion, Gabe and Bobby.

    Addressing several comments without quoting.

    Gabe: While I agree they should have pulled up more, I disagree that calling “go around” caused the pilots to absolutely refuse to pull up more, and void all common sense. Go around = essentially full power, nose up for really good climb. Wind shear = full power, nose up for MAXIMUM MAXIMUM climb, & try not to stall the thing. They knew they were in a windshear and my opinion remains that they simply fell short on executing extremely critical, seat of the pants, airmanship to fly extremely slow, close to the ground, right next to stick shaker speeds…they weren’t saying, “Geemanitly, we’re going in, but I’m in the middle of the regular go-around procedure, so I can’t pull up more, that deviates from procedure”.

    I saw your comment about flaps and gear- I will leave that to you engineers and procedure...
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  • 3WE
    replied to Not_Delta 191
    I HAVE read the book, I understand it well.

    You have NOT_riddren a bicycle.

    Therefore you are blind that they are following wind shear procedures AS WELL AS don’t stall the GD airplane procedures and deal with turbulence procedures.

    Guess what: My bicycling procedures are not_perfect.

    Delta 191 and these guys procedures weren’t perfect.

    We can cite shortcomings, but it’s easy to do from the easy chair and if you tried a bike, you might get beyond the black and white mindset that the experienced military pilot chose the wrong procedure and mis interpreted the negative AOA stall warning.

    Gabriel: what are your thoughts regarding the grossly overdone nose down inputs shown in the graph?...
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  • 3WE
    replied to Not_Delta 191
    Evan: Think. Look beyond the book. Recognize shades of gray.

    They know there is a wind shear risk.

    They know that you basically go around at full power.

    They also know there’s a stall risk (ask Gabriel to explain why there’s a stall risk, and if there’s a few unfavorable aspects to stalls)

    Is “We’re getting slow, into stall territory and in a buch of turbulence and a downburst where we may lose more speed and stall, so maybe we need a little speed” a reasonably plausible explanation?

    At least as plausible as “I’m a highly trained military and airline pilot, so in spite of the mantra to “trust the instruments”, I’m just going to do what the feelings in my ass and inner ear are telling me, and push over.”?

    And all the words matter, Evan. I said extremely plausible. Meteors not_extremely plausible.

    Shear and go around procedures are the same- no one in the cockpit DECIDED they would consciously not...
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  • 3WE
    replied to Not_Delta 191
    I thought you knew that I have a thing about phrases and words like that.

    But oddly enough, my objection is your blindness to some extremely plausible additional alternatives.

    And the bicycle analogy fits it all so well....
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  • 3WE
    replied to Not_Delta 191
    Did you watch the video or read the report? There’s two small nose overs on 191 (when they weren’t pulling up to stick shaker) and they are cited as contributing factors.

    A huge ass wind shear, greater than ever reported before, is another big contributing factor.

    And you don’t have to leave the bubble: put a 70 kt shear in at 600 feet and fly a heavy jet through on MSFS. You might end up landing gently, 0.25 miles short of the runway. The best survival trick is carrying extra knots, and firewalling the wimpy plastic power lever the instant the airspeed bobbles up.

    A bicycle does add some reality as motion, maintaining things and maybe dealing with bumps isn’t a static arm chair.

    By the way: Read the FCOM as much as you want, but pulling up aggressively right to, but not beyond stick-shaker while dealing with significantly varying up and down vertical speeds and winds and and tons of turbulence in other directions,...
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  • 3WE
    replied to Not_Delta 191
    https://youtu.be/dKwyU1RwPto?si=XuZoLewfQvi55lDr


    https://youtu.be/HY7pH3fzsvY?si=dORYduWDcWkLMxiL



    [Delta 191 depection] See how the somatogravic illusions, fear of a negative AOA stall and unawareness that they are in a microburst lead the pilots to nose down.

    Strikingly similar, I tell ya.

    And one subtlety: Pilots in the time of 191 were aware of a theory that a downdraft, hitting the earth might generate a speed increase followed by speed decrease (with a downdraft in the middle) that was consistent with a number of stormy-weather, low-altitude crashes. (727 MSY, et al)
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  • 3WE
    replied to Not_Delta 191
    Okay....
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  • 3WE
    replied to Not_Delta 191
    Not the worst thought, but go to a busy airport some day when a storm rolls through and watch Flightaware and listen to ATC…they often cut it really close.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5CLNC1kPsQ...
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