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  • #16
    confiscate property of suspected terrorists
    As long as a spotter is able to show proper ID and submits to a background check, I fail to understand how he falls under the category of "suspected terrorist". And hence, his property cannot be confiscated.

    There's something I just don't get. You guys aren't hiding anything, you aren't terrorists, or are you??? If you've got nothing to hide, then there shouldn't be anything to worry about.
    Unfortunately, we do. Even though we are not hiding anything, we worry about our film being confiscated, our pictures being deleted, and our cameras being taken away.
    "The Director also sets the record straight on what would happen if oxygen masks were to drop from the ceiling: The passengers freak out with abandon, instead of continuing to chat amiably, as though lunch were being served, like they do on those in-flight safety videos."

    -- The LA Times, in a review of 'Flightplan'

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    • #17
      Quote from the other thread regarding the Patriot Act and photography:

      "As stated above, we are not lawyers. That said, we find nothing in the text
      of the "Patriot Act" - or legal analysis of same - on the subject of police-
      imposed photo bans. Nor do we find anything that might grant
      "extraordinary" powers to police to confiscate cameras. (see
      http://library.riohondo.edu/Subject_...t_act-text.htm for a
      summary of materials related to the "Patriot Act" available online; note the
      item "The USA Patriot Act - a sketch"). Police may seize "evidence"
      pertaining to an ongoing criminal investigation. However, absent an arrest
      and criminal prosecution, "camera confiscation" is spelled "t-h-e-f-t," plain
      and simple. "


      The problem is that when people let the government run roughshod over them it will eventually become more and more common. If the government has a right to confiscate my camera and film, what is next? Control over what TV shows I watch or what books I read? Control over what grocery store I shop at? Get real. My photography of aircraft has nothing to do with terrorism. I want security for the nation as much as the next person, but I am not willing to let my rights get trampled in the process by mis-informed, gung-ho civil servants. I expect ID checks when I go spotting, and have no problem with that. I do have a problem with it when they start spouting off the lines about it being illegal and that the FBI will be in touch with me etc, etc. Those are primarily "scare tactics"...if a person doesn't show up to take plane pics because he/she is scared of the FBI, then the officer won't have to come out to check the person's ID.
      When people (and a nation) let paranoia and fear change their lives, they let the terrorists win. I'm not willing to do that.
      George R. Widener
      Oshkosh, WI USA
      Aircraft Photos Here
      Railroad Pictures Here

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Eagle_Driver
        Originally posted by Greg
        Originally posted by Eagle_Driver
        As a result, the government gained new power to wiretap phones, confiscate property of suspected terrorists, spy on citizens without judicial review, and conduct secret searches.
        If they ever try to do that to me, I'll have the ACLU on them ASAP.
        There's something I just don't get. You guys aren't hiding anything, you aren't terrorists, or are you??? If you've got nothing to hide, then there shouldn't be anything to worry about.
        What's the purpose of allowing a government to crush my civil rights into the mud under the banner of protection?

        A police officer who tells you that photography is a 'national threat' is a moron. There is no difference between watching planes and taking pictures of them. If I submit to the whim of a paranoid, power tripping cop who's to say that all aspects of life won't be like this.

        You have to stand up for what is written in the Constitution. Not what some crack pots added later in the form of the Patriot Act.

        Comment


        • #19
          Eagle_Driver... are you really that thick headed. There is something called personal privacy well all have a right to and there is the constutuion that was desigend to protect our rights. Because of the fact that the patriot act violates many rights it is unconstitutional.

          If you like having the government watch your every move go live in North Korea

          Comment


          • #20
            This is pretty stupid, I have been at PBI spotting few times and the airport security drives right in front of me and the don't say S*** to me, people see me and don't say S***, crew members see me and don't say S***. Palm Beach Sheriff Officers tell me that the only thing here they can do is come to you ask you what the hell you are doing and that is all and you know what life is good in Palm Beach. Americans just take everything to the boiling point. sometimes that is good and sometimes is just playing fu***** stupid.
            (got Boeing?)




            http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=1117

            Comment


            • #21
              police trouble while spotting

              We have had some trouble here at DFW, but I personally have not been bugged much. It seems only when you are sitting on top of your car at the fence. So I play it cool, and stay inside until something interesting comes along, image it and get back in the car. Even so, the DFW operations trucks that drive by look at you and stare. Every so often someone calls the airport police. Once, one looked at me and drove off, the other time the officer politely suggested I leave. So I did.

              I admit though, it is really pathetic, and deeply saddening, to read about what is going on elsewhere. THings are just going overboard. Now I read that we cannot take pics in a NYC subway. Give me a break. Apparently taking pictures in some places is now illegal, much like in the old USSR.
              DFW Tower.com

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              • #22
                Originally posted by indian airlines
                As long as a spotter is able to show proper ID and submits to a background check, I fail to understand how he falls under the category of "suspected terrorist". And hence, his property cannot be confiscated.
                Showing ID or submitting to a background check means nothing. All they're doing is checking to see if you have a criminal record. I can show my ID to them, and they won't find squat on their pc's. With terrorists, I highly doubt they'll have a criminal record. If anything, they're gonna try and keep a low profile.

                Originally posted by indian airlines
                Unfortunately, we do. Even though we are not hiding anything, we worry about our film being confiscated, our pictures being deleted, and our cameras being taken away.
                If that's more important then trying to prevent another terrorist attck, then so be it. In my opinion , I don't think it is.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Airbus_A320
                  Eagle_Driver... are you really that thick headed. There is something called personal privacy well all have a right to and there is the constutuion that was desigend to protect our rights. Because of the fact that the patriot act violates many rights it is unconstitutional.
                  In fact, since congress voted it in, it is in fact constitutional. There's no difference in them passing the Constitution, Bill of Rights, etc... as long as it's passed by congress, it is by all means constitutional.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Congress can vote anything they want in, but that doesn't make it "constitutional". If it goes against something in the actual Constitution or one of the amendments it can be struck down by the Supreme Court at a later date on the grounds of being unconstitutional.
                    Personally, I'm saddened that so many people are willing to roll over and let their rights get trampled.
                    George R. Widener
                    Oshkosh, WI USA
                    Aircraft Photos Here
                    Railroad Pictures Here

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Eagle_Driver
                      Originally posted by Airbus_A320
                      Eagle_Driver... are you really that thick headed. There is something called personal privacy well all have a right to and there is the constutuion that was desigend to protect our rights. Because of the fact that the patriot act violates many rights it is unconstitutional.
                      In fact, since congress voted it in, it is in fact constitutional. There's no difference in them passing the Constitution, Bill of Rights, etc... as long as it's passed by congress, it is by all means constitutional.
                      All laws have to follow the constitution.

                      Remember segregation was "legal" until the Supreme Court struck it down in Brown vs. Board.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        In fact, since congress voted it in, it is in fact constitutional. There's no difference in them passing the Constitution, Bill of Rights, etc... as long as it's passed by congress, it is by all means constitutional.
                        You seem to have a very shallow understanding on how our government works...a law is not "constitutional" until it is approved as such by the Supreme Court.

                        If that's more important then trying to prevent another terrorist attck, then so be it. In my opinion , I don't think it is.
                        You negate the fact that this will probably have zilch effect on detecting or preventing the next attack. You don't need to be standing next to the airport perimiter fence to shoot down a plane with a Stinger...

                        -Clovis

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                        • #27
                          They Never Seized My Camera at JFK

                          Some of you are under the mistaken impression that my camera and film were seized at the airport. That is untrue. I was questioned and asked for an ID and told to leave. When I returned home, I discovered that I had LEFT my camera near the airport fence. I later learned that the authorities had found it. When I came to retrieve it, they gave me a hard time. The film was ruined; as they evidently had opened up the back. It was Kodacolor film and had been either opened or x-rayed, as the images were extremely light. They never seized anything!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: They Never Seized My Camera at JFK

                            Originally posted by Myron
                            Some of you are under the mistaken impression that my camera and film were seized at the airport. That is untrue. I was questioned and asked for an ID and told to leave. When I returned home, I discovered that I had LEFT my camera near the airport fence. I later learned that the authorities had found it. When I came to retrieve it, they gave me a hard time. The film was ruined; as they evidently had opened up the back. It was Kodacolor film and had been either opened or x-rayed, as the images were extremely light. They never seized anything!
                            But they have done it to other photographers.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              harrassment of photographers

                              The harassment of spotters in the USA has gotten out of hand. For those who have not heard, there is now a proposed ban on photography in the New York subway. Unfortunately, the railfans are now getting a taste of what the plane spotters have been putting up with for years.

                              For people who would like to voice their opinion, an online petition can be found here……

                              Change.org ist die größte Petitionsplattform der Welt. Über 200 Millionen Nutzerinnnen und Nutzer setzen sich mithilfe der Plattform für Veränderung ein.


                              There's also an online poll here:
                              There's also an online poll here:

                              Support Team Twin Towers: http://teamtwintowers.org/
                              The Unofficial JFK Airport 50th Anniversary Page: http://members.tripod.com/~psa188/
                              The best slide auction on the net:
                              http://www.auctiontransportation.com/sites/psa188/

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