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Question: If for arguments sake the elevator cable

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  • #16
    That would be interesting to see.

    Anyone know of a simulator that has doors?
    Life is good

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Dmmoore
      You had better be an octopus if you lost all primary flight controls.
      Two items:

      1) The trim, throttle and pedal landing is something that I've heard talked about LOTS, and I imagine instructors do it a lot too. My instructor tried it one day, but winds were a bit gusty and he wound up grabbing the yoke at the last minute (Cessna is a wonderful, forgiving plane, except for the nosewheel, which doesn't break up and die, but get's this anoying wiggle!)

      2) Light Single Cessnas- outstanding planes- they don't even need controls, you can do it all with doors, trim wheels and throttles....no runway...no problem, drop ALL the flaps bleed ALL the speed and with a little luck you'll be stuck hanging alive in the trees, hoping the limbs don't break and kill you in the fall...All that great stuff and then we have the cirrus and it's ballistic chute...
      Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by 3WE
        Two items:

        1) The trim, throttle and pedal landing is something that I've heard talked about LOTS, and I imagine instructors do it a lot too. My instructor tried it one day, but winds were a bit gusty and he wound up grabbing the yoke at the last minute (Cessna is a wonderful, forgiving plane, except for the nosewheel, which doesn't break up and die, but get's this anoying wiggle!)
        Light and variable winds are a prerequisite.

        2) Light Single Cessnas- outstanding planes- they don't even need controls, you can do it all with doors, trim wheels and throttles....no runway...no problem, drop ALL the flaps bleed ALL the speed and with a little luck you'll be stuck hanging alive in the trees, hoping the limbs don't break and kill you in the fall...All that great stuff and then we have the cirrus and it's ballistic chute...
        Only works if you have very good insurance and your intent is not to reuse the aircraft without a rebuild.
        Don
        Standard practice for managers around the world:
        Ready - Fire - Aim! DAMN! Missed again!

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        • #19
          Someone asked about T tails?

          Well, the Tomahawk has a quite rare trim system.
          No trim tab. No movable stabilizer.
          Springs.
          I really don't know what practical consequences would that have from a pilot's point of view. I've flown the C-152 several times (trim tab type) and found no practical difference trim wise.

          A "cables failed" flight is the same than a hands-off-yoke flight. So it can be practiced without severing any cable.

          I've tried a trim approach in the Tomahawk a couple of times. It was relatively easy to use it for the approach and to coordinate with the throttle to achive the desired speed and descent rate. However, as the response with the trim is slow (several turn movements to move the yoke an inch), the flare is quite hard to do it at the right time and right ammount. With the yoke you pull it to raise the noose and then push a bit (or release some pressure) to prevent balooning up. It's a quick move, impossible to do with the trim. I always ended grabbing the yoke for the flare.

          I've never tried the 100fpm descent. I guess that would work (if there are no obstacles in the approach path, or if there is a long enough runway to aim to the midpoint).

          However, in general the actuation of the elevator is via two pull cables. Chances of both cables being cut or lose are small (unless something like a prop blade cuts them).

          If only one cable fails, then you still have full authority in one direction. Just apply a good bunch of trim in the opposite direction. You'll have to keep a constant push or pull on the yoke, but increasing ro releasing the pressure will easily control the pitch as desired. It's not like with everything Ok, but it's really easy, just a discomfort maybe. I've done it.

          And since I'm new in this forum, maybe someone at JP doesn't know what a Tomahawk is (I've made sure that evrybody at AD knew).

          The Tomahawk is the Piper PA-38-112. The one in my avatar.

          --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
          --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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          • #20
            And one more thing.

            Some years ago in what was my home airfield there was a mid-air. A Cessna 172 had taken off, made a 180 and was climbing, when its prop struck the tail boom of a C-152 that was in the downwind leg for landing.

            The prop of the 172 was damaged and they lost the engine power (don't know why). They made it back for a deadstick landing on the runway.

            The 152 got the elevator cables and trim rod severed. No pitch control, primary or secondary.

            The 152 happened to result "naturally" ballanced for a speed that was beyond what the engine was capable to sustain in level flight. So they descended at full trhottle and high speed, but at least the descent was shallow. They crash-landed in a farm. The plane was absolutely destroyed but, amazingly, the 2 occupants escaped badly hurt but alive and eventually recovered. Based on comment from people who talked to them, they didn't thought of shifting weight. They could have slided the seats all the way back, even one of them could have jumped back to the baggage compartment. I don't know if that would have worked, but I would have tried.

            --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
            --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Gabriel
              They could have slided the seats all the way back, even one of them could have jumped back to the baggage compartment. I don't know if that would have worked, but I would have tried.
              I don't know if I'd think of that or not.

              Also, seat sliding sounds good, but to "hop in the back" would require unbuckling the seat belt which we know from the automobile world would likely reduce the survival odds for that person.
              Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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              • #22
                Gab,

                Does the T-hawk have a "normal" trim wheel or is it still the crank on the overhead?

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by 3WE
                  Two items:
                  ballistic chute...
                  Ah yes the "ZOMG IM JUST GONNA SIT HERE AND SHIT MY PANTS chute" Honestly in some cases I'd rather make a forced landing than deploy that thing. There was a guy breaking his back pretty badly and ending up in the water unconcious after an emergency landing with the chute deployed. Kind of off topic but does anybody know what happens if the ballistic chute is deployed above the recommended speed?

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by RadarContactLost
                    Gab,

                    Does the T-hawk have a "normal" trim wheel or is it still the crank on the overhead?
                    I couldn't find a suitable picture.
                    But in the picture below you can see the flaps lever between the seats.
                    If you could look a little more down next to the root of the flap lever, you'd see a typical trim weel and trim index with an "N" marked for "neutral".
                    http://www.pilotfriend.com/training/...images2/15.jpg

                    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by JordanD
                      Ah yes the "ZOMG IM JUST GONNA SIT HERE AND SHIT MY PANTS chute" Honestly in some cases I'd rather make a forced landing than deploy that thing. There was a guy breaking his back pretty badly and ending up in the water unconcious after an emergency landing with the chute deployed. Kind of off topic but does anybody know what happens if the ballistic chute is deployed above the recommended speed?
                      But as long as we don't hijack the thread.

                      I'm one of those that think the ballistic parachute may have uses in specific circumstances. However I wouldn't EVER put an aircraft into a position where I would need the thing.

                      I'm sure the chute would deploy okay if it were deployed 10% over the maximum speed but above that you have a serious risk of damage to the chute and or rigging. Damage to these increases the speed at which the aircraft smacks the ground.
                      Don
                      Standard practice for managers around the world:
                      Ready - Fire - Aim! DAMN! Missed again!

                      Comment

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