Air France plane missing?

[arjenp]

LSGG, I think the CVR(if they find him) has the answer to that.

[Alpha Sierra]

Here's some more information about the aircraft and crew, as reported by CNN:

"According to Air France, the captain of flight AF 447 had a record of 11,000 flight hours and had already flown 1,700 hours on Airbus A330/A340 aircraft. Of the two first officers, one had flown 3,000 flight hours (800 of which on the Airbus A330/A340) and the other 6,600 (2,600 on the Airbus A330/A340).

The aircraft had totalled 18,870 flight hours and went into service on 18 April 2005. Its last maintenance check in the hangar took place on 16 April 2009. "

It looks like both the experienced crew and relatively new aircraft stood little chance of dealing with whatever it was they encountered.

Let's hope investigators will be able to get to the bottom of this.

[Alessandro]

Yes fairly new airplane, http://aviation-safety.net/database/...?id=20090601-0
I wonder if French Airforce is involved in the search, since French Guiana is nearby?

[Eric Diffoot]

Now they have presumed it has crashed. It's reported that the plane had clocked 18,870 hours and underwent maintenance last year. Something serious went wrong with an experienced crew in controls. Prayers go out to the families affected.

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSL19323320090601?sp=true

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UPDATE 7-Air France plane crashes into Atlantic with 228 aboard

Mon Jun 1, 2009 11:52am EDT

* Air France spokesman says plane crashed
* No news of the 228 people on board
* Brazilian, French military planes hunt for wreckage
(Updates with new Air France statement, details)

By Estelle Shirbon

PARIS, June 1 (Reuters) - An Air France plane with 228 people on board was presumed to have crashed into the Atlantic Ocean on Monday after hitting heavy turbulence during a flight from Rio de Janeiro to Paris.
The airline offered its condolences to the families of the passengers, making clear it did not expect to find survivors.

[Alessandro]

6 Danish, French, Italian, Maroccans and Libanese citizens among the missing as well.

[obmot]

Was this a similar aircraft to the AA flight with tail separation over NYC? I forget if that was an A330.

Sounds to me like whatever happened was pretty quick and severe.

[LH-B744]

Departure at 22.00 GMT, contact lost 06.00 GMT, where would that put the plane, roughly? Canary islands?
I now see on the CNN report:
"Reports said an air force search and rescue operation was underway around the Brazilian island of Fernando de Noronha, 365 kilometers (226 miles) off the mainland."
That doesn't tally with the 8 hours flown from 22-06.

All the news that I came across until now (CNN, n-tv German news and some others) say that the machine lost radar contact, but has been in the air for an unknown time span after that. So maybe there were not so many miles left until the arrival in Paris.
At CNN weather they say that there was no alternative route to avoid the thunderstorm, as it was a real thunderstorm "bar" across the whole atlantic.
But several questions are without answer for me:
1) There is a rescue operation 365 km away from the Brazilian shore at Fernando de Noronha, which is 1306 nm away from SBGL. Given an average groundspeed of 390 (?), AF447 should have reached the area of Fernando d.N. in a bit more than 3 hours.
Was the weather forecast at SBGL predicting tropical sun without any clouds so that AF447 did the t/o with the very direct way to LFPG? Or why didn't they fly a bypass?
..

[Alessandro]

Was this a similar aircraft to the AA flight with tail separation over NYC? I forget if that was an A330.

Sounds to me like whatever happened was pretty quick and severe.

Nope, it was an A300, an older plane than the A330.
http://gc.kls2.com/airport/FEN is the nearest airfield as far as I know do they have any radar on this old WW2 airfield?
Must have, since Varig operates to the airport with their B737 alongside ATR42s who are flying there.

http://www.noronha.com.br/turismo.htm

Ironi in this mess is that a place is called "Air France" on the island to honor the airlines
postal service who stopped there during the early days of aviation.

[Eric Diffoot]

The accident off of NYC involved an AA A300 when it's vertical stabilizer broke off. Looks like you posted right before I posted there Alessandro.

[obmot]

Ah yes that AA incident was an A300. Thanks guys.

[obmot]

Oh I have one more question, does anyone know the 'range' of the little 'pinger' that activates when the unit, for example, is involved in a crash and/or gets wet? I think it is attached to one or both of the black boxes.

How does the pinger work (type of signal, etc.).

[AVION1]

Oh I have one more question, does anyone know the 'range' of the little 'pinger' that activates when the unit, for example, is involved in a crash and/or gets wet? I think it is attached to one or both of the black boxes.

How does the pinger work (type of signal, etc.).

It activates with the water, it sends an acoustic signal, it has a self contained battery which may last up to 3 days, if the aircraft is too deep, you can send an acoustic probe attached to a wire....

[mawheatley]

My apologies if these sound like stupid questions, but a) is the A330 a composite aircraft? and b) are composite aircraft any less able to cope with lightning strikes? I remember from Physics about the Faraday Cage Effect, but if I remember correctly that relies on the "cage" being a good conductor. Just wondering if the charge not being conducted around and out could have put the avionics at a greater risk? As I said, sorry if they're dumb questions - I'm sure the aircraft designers know far more about the subject than I ever will, but a layman's explanation would be nice.

P.S. I read on another forum that AF had another flight operate the same route last night, safely, and that was a 747-400. I know that's not a composite. Now would that have taken a different routing as it had 4 engines?

[Alessandro]

http://alphasite.airfrance.com/s01/?L=0

1 Africain du Sud
26 Allemands
2 Américains
1 Argentin
1 Autrichien
1 Belge
58 Brésiliens
5 Britanniques
1 Canadien
9 Chinois
1 Croate
1 Danois
2 Espagnols
1 Estonien
61 Français
1 Gambien
4 Hongrois
3 Irlandais
1 Islandais
9 Italiens
5 Libanais
2 Marocains
1 Néerlandais
3 Norvégiens
1 Philippin
2 Polonais
1 Roumain
1 Russe
3 Slovaques
1 Suédois
6 Suisses
1 Turc
Crew consist of Brazilian and French citizens.

[AVION1]

Well...at this time of the day, I must assume now this is a bad accident. If the electric system has failed or the nav/comm has failed, he should already have landed in Canary Islands (alternate airport), or any place in north Africa.