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Update, My visit to ISP Police

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  • Update, My visit to ISP Police

    Well I went back down to ISP today to turn the tables on them. This time I'd be the one asking the questions. First off they were shocked to see me. One of the officers who took part in last night’s events was there. When I walked in the office her mouth just dropped. I asked them about taking pictures from public roads and I was told first that the road I was on was owned by the airport and is private, BTW ISP is owned by the town of Islip which makes it a pubic road and public property, but then I was told it was a public road in the very same sentence. I then began asking them about their training and was it common practice for officers to accuse someone of something without proof or just cause? Again they didn't have a clear answer. I was told that it was a Suffolk County Police issue and not an Islip Airport Police issue.

    This is when I asked who's in charge of security at ISP. I was first told it was the TSA, but since I was on a public road (only a min ago I was told it was a private road) Suffolk Police were responsible, and then he began to tell me that Islip Airport Police were in charge of perimeter security. So I asked again who's in charge of security at the airport... He paused for a second and said it was a joint venture between the TSA, Islip Airport Police, and Suffolk County. Pretty scary that the security at Islip McArthur has no clear direction of whom is in-charge. Seems to me that is a bigger issue then people who like to take pictures of planes. I asked again about taking pictures at the airport and was first told I couldn’t but then was told I was allowed to take pictures inside the terminal but not outside the terminal. I just left one alone, talk about a moron.

    I did get the sense that they were not happy I was asking them about their jobs and their procedures. They continued to state that aviation photography aids terrorists. I asked how specifically my photos helped terrorists. They told me that the photos on Jet Photos and ANet reveal allot of information about a plane, like what kind of plane it is and the tail number. I couldn't believe what I was hearing so I proceeded to inform them that you could go to Boeing.com and download exact product specifications about any plane Boeing produces. They didn't have an answer.

    I've already written my local Gov't leaders and gave ISP notice that I will continue to take photos of planes, as it is not illegal to do so. Wasn't it President Bush who got on T.V countless times in commercials stating that Americans conduct their lives in a normal fashion and enjoy life? Well if ISP has a problem with my hobby let them take it up with President Bush.

  • #2
    Well done Tom, that takes some b@#ls!
    Let us know how it unfolds!

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    • #3
      Tom,

      Way to go!! It's people like you who will stand up for what's right and allow our hobby to continue!
      Trump is an idiot!
      Vote Democrats!!

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      • #4
        Go Tom!

        Show them spotters ARE NOT stupid
        Check out my photos at jp.net! http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=613

        Comment


        • #5
          Excellent Tom. I'm glad you stood up for your rights. Unfortunately we have a few (quite a few) people out there who don't understand the hobby and feel they can tramp on our rights as citizens.

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          • #6
            At this time I think All New York area spotters should PM Tom for support and any possible assistance we can help. I for one am in and would like to help in any way possible. I will show up in courts with you as we should all! As for anyone on this forum, Tom... If I can do ANYTHING. It would be my pleasure to be of ANY service. YOU HAVE BALLS and I am with you all the way....

            The police need to stop, run our name and ask if WE see anything out of the ordinary... after all, The Police do not care as much as us about what is happening at the airport nor do they care to know.


            Click Here to view my aircraft photos at JetPhotos.Net!

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            • #7
              Update, My visit to ISP Police

              Tom, you deserve my entire respect
              This once again demonstrates the incompetence of the police at/around american airports.

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              • #8
                you have my respect man. It takes a lot to stand up for your rights in that kind of situation..I would definetly whatch my back out there though, police dont like it when someone comes in and proves them wrong. good luck to ya
                He who expected nothin......aint gonna be deceived-JR

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                • #9
                  Keep up the pressure. There are too many ignorant people in positions of power willing to throw their weight around.

                  Thirty years ago we had similar problems at UK airports, things have improved because we refused to give up a harmless and legitimate hobby. Now some UK airports go out of their way to help enthusiasts.

                  As to such sites as this aiding terrorists all I can point to are the number of US airports which have been featured in aviation magazines (trade and newstand) since 9/11 with shots taken on the ramp of aircraft and facilities (Boston appeared in one UK mag. The day the photographer and jouralist were being given "open house to shoot anything" a long time Boston spotter was being given a hard time by local police for taking photos of aircraft "which is now illegal").

                  It is not a bad idea to ask any law officer to quote which enactments specifically forbid photography. There may be some obscure local ordinances, but they are very rare.

                  As to the jibe about "getting a life", the following may be of interest:

                  During the Spring I went to Shannon for the day. With a 150 mile round trip on not particualarly good roads and little (but often interesting) traffic, I pick my days carefully and spend up to 12 hours on a public road by the runway.

                  The day I picked was to shoot the Jet Airways B737-900 on delivery to India. It also happened to be 3 days after some peace protestors had got onto the runway at the end of a Spring during which a number of incursions had taken place and a US Navy aircraft had been damaged.

                  After about two hours, a scruffy blue Datsun appeared. Two guys in civvies got out and mooched around. A Garda (Police) car appeared and a male and female officer got out. They asked for my name, address and date of birth. I asked why? THey didn't answer. The two guys in civvies came up and identified themselves as Special Branch. During this two other cars appeared with local spotters. The Special Branch Officers took over the questioning and the uniformed officers went to the new arrivals. I was asked what I was doing. When I answered "photographing aircraft" I was asked why? I answered that it had been a hobby for over 40 years and that I would be parked, legally, where I was, until I decided to go that evening. One of the plain clothes officers then commented that it was a stupid hobby.

                  Now I'm 56, have been around a bit, devised and run aviation security conferences and, frankly, in my home country (UK) and country of domicle (Ireland) I know my rights. I asked the officer what his hobby was. "Golf" he said. "Pretty stupid isn't it, hitting a small white ball into a hole hundreds of yards away in all weathers and having to pay massive fees to play? His colleague was smirking at this, but the first guy called someone on the radio.

                  On the other side of the fence an army van arrived complete with four guys with automatic waepns. The local spotters were now giving the uniformed branch a hard time.

                  Then was heard a helicopter and across the airport came an Air Corps Allouette. This hovered about ten feet inside the airport fence at a height of around 8 feet right in front of us as a cameraman videod the whole scene.

                  I suggested to the plain clothes guys that this was overkill. Given the equipment, books and very visible presence I wanted to now why my tax Euro was being wasted.

                  I then went on to name some pretty high profile aviation security personnel and senior politicians both in the UK and Ireland who would be interested to get a phone call and started dialling on the mobile.

                  The attitude changed at once, the helicopter backed off and the uniformed branch came back and asked for my details again. Again I asked why as I was not committing any offence and had a right to know why the question was being asked and to what purpose the information would be put. Only then did they have the courtesy to say that a local decision had been made, in the interests of security to take details of anyone who lingered more than an hour by the runway, that this would be cross checked so that elimination from suspicion could be carried out and we would be left in peace in future.

                  I then gave them the information, pointing out that, had they told me why they wanted the information when they first asked for it, they would have had their answer.

                  The Special Branch golfer obviously wanted more, however. "How long have you lived here?" I told him 5 years. "Why did you come to live in Ireland?" That's my business and under EU law I have the right of abode" He than changed tack. Pointing to the two Volga Dnepr AN124s parked on the field he asked "how many passengers do they hold?"

                  I answered "you know as well as I that they are cargo aircraft and, if you but knew it, they need as much security cover as US aircraft as they provided a great deal of logistics support for the Iraq War" "Oh" came the reply, "we'll leave it then."

                  Later in the day they came back and came up to the car again with a piece of paper. "We've just got the list of movements and you might want to know there's a Galaxy biz jet due 30 minutes after you said you'd be going". I thanked them, was asked to show them my digital camera and, on subsequent visits, until their surveillance finished in June, was greeted warmly by them and their colleagues and was supplied with information (including USAF Hercules arrival times).

                  The moral: Know your rights, when in the right stand your ground and do not roll over because they have might on their side.
                  PhilB

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                  • #10
                    good job, if it was me i would have said "how bout i park my car up ur ass so u wont have to tow it". you tought those crakheads a lesson way to go.
                    frist is my last name, not a type-o

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                    • #11
                      very true Phil! Loved your little story, reminded me when in Chicago me, Dan, Chris and Gary got pulled by the local police authority, they asked where Chris and Gary came from, then questioned if they had their own airports to go to. Then they asked me and Dan where we were from, as soon as we said 'England' we got a funny look, and they shut up and checked our documents, also saying we were now registered with the tower for some reoson so were not hassled again.

                      But on our last day we still got boxed in by 3 police cars. Just to be asked in a friendly manor are we taking photo's lol.
                      E-Mail Me - My Photo's - My Photographer Profile

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                      • #12
                        I have been stopped so many times while spotting that I have begun to carry printouts of certain documents with me whenever I spot. While most officers simply ask what I am doing and then when they have checked me out, go on their way with no hassles, some will decide to play hard ball. When I am faced by this type or I am told it's not legal to photograph aircraft I ask the officer to show me where it is written or to quote the applicable statutes. I then show him/her the following:

                        The United States Constitution: http://www.house.gov/Constitution/Constitution.html

                        The Bill of Rights: http://memory.loc.gov/const/bor.html

                        The Patriot Act: http://www.eff.org/Privacy/Surveilla...ias/hr3162.php

                        Lots of officers will back off when they see you are prepared to defend your rights. Just be sure first that you are in a place where it is legal for you to be. It's probably not a bad idea to look up the local state and municipality statutes as well and have printouts of those too. I also carry printouts of some pages off A-net and JP-net to show that I have been spotting for some time and suggest that they take a look at the sites next time they are at a computer to satisfy themselves that it is a legitimate hobby. I have business cards printed with the URL's for both sites on them so that they may do so. At all times be cool and friendly and remember that confrontationalism isn't likely to help. From the officer's point of view it's just doing his/her job, even if he/she is misinformed about the legality of the situation.

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                        • #13
                          I get around 50 feet from air force 2 by passing no less than 5 Police and with no prior approval from secret service, by just stopping by - Jackasses!

                          And this IS ISP after Sept 11th! now they are impounding cars! I have tons of photos from ISP.


                          I have a shot of the 727 but have looked at about 12,000 shots trying to find it, I will check more in the next few days.


                          Click Here to view my aircraft photos at JetPhotos.Net!

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                          • #14
                            My god, Tom... you have balls big as church bells. You must be bowlegged from carrying that set around!!

                            Way to go... for all of us!

                            ~gregory
                            ________
                            Ford Model 48

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                            • #15
                              Tom and phil you guy's are the best!
                              and AMS is the best spotters place if you don't want to be hold down by the police, because aviation hobby is very respected here
                              My New Photo Name on JP.net is DutchAviation!!!!

                              why should we fight about wich aircraft manufactor is better..............


                              thats so childish....



                              because hey we all know boeing is better

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