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BREAKING NEWS: Ethiopian Airlines 737 disappeared off Beirut

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  • #31
    Originally posted by akerosid View Post
    Evan, I don't think that rudder is from the 738; it looks like it's from the one that crashed in 1996. Notice the different tail scheme from the current one.
    Oh sorry, I should have looked at it more closely. it was posted on a news site with the current incident. I should have figured that out though. The 737 strake is obviously not there. I deleted the post.

    From Google Earth and the approximate position shown on Aviation Herald, it should be no more than 1000 ft depth at the crash site, so I trust the boxes will be retrieved.


    It is remarkable, when going through the list of 738 hull losses, that there are quite a number - compared to the total number of other 737NGs lost; as far as I'm aware, that number is very low.
    If you look at the causes, they are mainly due to pilot error, weather and bad fortune. I don't think any of them can be tied to a specific design weakness on the 738. Just coincidental I think.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by edaher View Post
      ...................It's true, eyewitnesses claimed seeing a ball of fire.
      "The Lebanese army said the plane had broken up in the air before plummeting into rough seas. Witnesses described the impact as a "flash that lit up the whole sea" and a "ball of fire"."
      reuters.com/article/idUSLDE60O00J20100125
      ..............................
      I wonder who these witness were who were awake at 2:30 am and looking two miles out to sea in reportly very poor weather conditions. Maybe they saw a post crash fireball.

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      • #33
        Vessels and a helicopter search for survivors after an Ethiopian Airlines plane crashed in the sea in Nahmeh, south of Beirut, Lebanon, Monday, Jan. 25, 2010. An Ethiopian Airlines plane carrying 90 people crashed into the Mediterranean Sea early Monday just minutes after takeoff from Beirut, Lebanon's transportation minister said.

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        • #34
          Bad weather to blame?

          From the BBC:

          "An Ethiopian Airlines plane that crashed into the sea off Beirut was probably brought down by bad weather, Lebanon's defence minister has said.
          But Elias Murr said the cause of the crash could only be established after the flight recorders were recovered."

          It would appear that the poor weather, as originally speculated, is increasingly being considered as a major contributing factor, if not the cause, in bringing down the airliner.

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          • #35
            the plane at the moment of the crash

            Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

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            • #36
              Friday mate, I have absolutely no idea what that was. Can you translate?

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              • #37
                Pilot in Beirut crash didn't follow tower's advice

                http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100126/...on_plane_crash

                By BASSEM MROUE and ZEINA KARAM, Associated Press Writers Bassem
                Mroue And Zeina Karam, Associated Press Writers 37 mins ago

                BEIRUT – The pilot of an Ethiopian Airlines plane that crashed into the sea flew in the opposite direction from the path recommended by the control tower after taking off from Beirut in thunderstorms, Lebanon's transportation minister said Tuesday.

                All 90 people on board were feared dead after the plane went down in flames minutes after takeoff at around 2:30 a.m. Monday, during a night of lightning and thunderstorms.

                Transportation Minister Ghazi Aridi said the pilot initially followed the tower's guidance, but then abruptly changed course and went in the opposite direction.

                "They asked him to correct his path but he did a very fast and strange turn before disappearing completely from the radar," Aridi told The Associated Press.

                It was not immediately clear why the pilot veered off the recommended path. Like most other airliners, the Boeing 737 is equipped with its own onboard weather radar, which the pilot may have used to avoid flying into thunderheads rather than following the flight tower's recommendation.
                "Nobody is saying the pilot is to blame for not heeding orders," Aridi said, adding: "There could have been many reasons for what happened. ... Only the black box can tell."

                Lebanese officials have ruled out terrorism or "sabotage" on the flight bound for the Ethiopian capital Addis Ababa.

                No survivors had been found more than 24 hours after the crash. Emergency workers have pulled bodies from the sea; the numbers reported so far range from a dozen to more than 20.

                Ethiopian Airlines' CEO Girma Wake said Tuesday some bodies were probably still in the plane.

                "We hope they will find trapped bodies in the fuselage," Wake said in Addis Ababa.

                Searchers were trying to find the plane's black box and flight data recorder, which are critical to determining the cause of the crash.
                On Tuesday, rescue teams and equipment sent from the U.N. and countries including the United States and Cyprus were helping in the search. Conditions were chilly but relatively clear — far better than Monday, when rain lashed the coast.

                Pieces of the plane and other debris were washing ashore, and emergency crews pulled a large piece of the plane, about 3 feet (1 meter) long, from the water. A crew member, Safi Sultaneh, identified it as a piece of a wing.

                An aviation analyst familiar with the investigation said Beirut air traffic control was guiding the Ethiopian flight through the thunderstorms for the first 2-3 minutes of its flight.

                The official, who asked not to be identified because of the sensitivity of the matter, said this was standard procedure by Lebanese controllers to assist airliners departing from the airport in poor weather conditions.
                It is unclear exactly what happened in the last 2 minutes of flight, the official said.

                Patrick Smith, a U.S.-based airline pilot and aviation writer, said there were many possible causes for the crash.


                "Had the plane encountered extreme turbulence, or had it suffered a powerful lightning strike that knocked out instruments while penetrating strong turbulence, then structural failure or loss of control, followed by an in-flight breakup, are possible causes."

                Ethiopian Airlines said late Monday that the pilot had more than 20 years of experience. It did not give the pilot's name or details of other aircraft the pilot had flown. It said the recovered bodies included those of Ethiopians and Lebanese.

                The Lebanese army and witnesses say the plane was on fire shortly after takeoff. A defense official also said some witnesses reported the plane broke up into three pieces.
                At the Government Hospital in Beirut, Red Cross workers brought in bodies covered with wool blankets as relatives gathered nearby. Marla Pietton, wife of the French ambassador to Lebanon, was among those on board, according to the French Embassy.
                what ever happens......happens

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                • #38
                  It certainly looked like something got ingested in the port engine and it was flaming out.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by edaher View Post
                    airsafe.com, Fatal Boeing 737-800 Plane Crashes

                    - 29 September 2006; Gol Linhas Aereas 737-800; near Peixoto de Azevedo, Brazil
                    - 5 May 2007; Kenya Airways 737-800; near Douala, Cameroon
                    - 20 August 2007; China Airlines 737-800; Naha, Japan10 November 2008; Ryanair 737-800; Flight 4102; Rome, Italy
                    - 25 February 2009; Turkish Airlines 737-800; Flight 1951; Amsterdam, Netherlands
                    - 22 December 2009; American Airlines 737-800 (N977AN); Flight 331; Kingston, Jamaica
                    - 25 January 2010; Ethiopian Airlines 737-800; Flight 409; near Beirut, Lebanon
                    In general http://aviation-safety.net/database/...x.php?type=jet is better.
                    Anyway, the Cameroon crash seem similar to this one. I guess the French will send a unmanned submarine to find the black box?
                    "The real CEO of the 787 project is named Potemkin"

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                    • #40
                      Transportation Minister Ghazi Aridi told The Associated Press that the tower had asked the pilot "to correct his path but he did a very fast and strange turn before disappearing completely from the radar."
                      ==============
                      Sounds like if he decided to come back to the airport ASAP..!!
                      A Former Airdisaster.Com Forum (senior member)....

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        There's some confusion here between these reports of official statements. Was it a left turn or a right turn? So... what did the ATC officials actually state to the press?

                        This is from Flightglobal.com:

                        Originally posted by Flightglobal.com
                        An air traffic control source familiar with the event tells Air Transport Intelligence that an exchange with Beirut centre discussed navigating towards the VOR beacon identified as CAK, which lies on the Lebanese coast north of Beirut.
                        This exchange, I assume, was prior to takeoff. This is the a standard departure from RWY 21.

                        The article continues...

                        Originally posted by Flightglobal.com
                        But he says that air traffic control needed to ensure separation between ET409 and two aircraft which were on approach to Beirut's runway 16 at the time.
                        In order to maintain separation, he says, ET409 was instructed to turn left onto a heading of 270° but the crew apparently failed to comply.
                        "Instead it turned left, further," says the source, adding that - as the heading wound down to 140° - controllers became alarmed that the aircraft was turning back towards land and high terrain.
                        Controllers tried ordering the aircraft to turn right, warning the crew of the mountainous area, but the source says that radar contact was lost with the jet shortly afterwards. It came down off the Lebanese coast south of Beirut.
                        So that indicates a turn in the same direction as ATC instructed, but then a continuation beyond 270° (or a second turn) to 140°—where contact is lost. Were they passing through 140°, trying to return to the 030° approach in an emergency?

                        Perhaps a navigation pro here can help me with this. The standard departure for BEY RWY 21 involves a climb out to 5000ft, then a 170° right turn after departure, then crossing over the 16/17 approach on a 30° track to Chekka. The reports suggests a conflict with arrival traffic for 16/17, but I don't understand the issue if ET409 was following that pattern.

                        It seems that (due to traffic?) ATC pushed them over to 270° instead, which makes sense to me from an ignorant point of view because 270° basically sends them, more or less, on their intended route (as the crow flies), whereas Chekka brings them back to the north of Beirut. (I'm sure there's a logical reason for that departure track that has nothing to do with crows).

                        So, ET409 apparently did not turn opposite of ATC instructions as Transportation Minister Ghazi Aridi has stated (according to AP), but first complied with and then exceeded those instructions.

                        Apparently.

                        I will post what I believe to be the appropriate departure plate.

                        Originally posted by ultraflight View Post
                        It certainly looked like something got ingested in the port engine and it was flaming out.
                        Unless I'm mistaken, those intermittent flashes on the video are strobes from the aircraft. The "final" flash could be from lightning. The video does seem to show, however, that the visibility was pretty good for eyewitnesses.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          The departure route described seems to match more with KALDE 2D, which, again, would make more sense to me as a departure route to the south. But the source quoted on Flightglobal claims they were signed up for the LATEB 1D CAK route to the north...

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                          • #43
                            and now for my next trick...

                            so, tell me exactly how it is we as the traveling public, you know, the pesky passengers that only pay to keep these boneheaded greedy airlines in business, supposed to trust any airlines?

                            let's look at some facts, or assumptions. the flight takes off in conditions that REQUIRE atc to direct the flight through what are obviously dangerous thunderstorms. why? why not wait a bit and let the weather pass? is it worth the risk? ahhh what are 90 lives anyway? on-time performance and the almighty dollar/bottom line are more important!

                            yeah yeah, go on and tell me about your cost-benefit analyses again and how safety and human life are only worth so much!!!

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
                              so, tell me exactly how it is we as the traveling public, you know, the pesky passengers that only pay to keep these boneheaded greedy airlines in business, supposed to trust any airlines?

                              let's look at some facts, or assumptions. the flight takes off in conditions that REQUIRE atc to direct the flight through what are obviously dangerous thunderstorms. why? why not wait a bit and let the weather pass? is it worth the risk? ahhh what are 90 lives anyway? on-time performance and the almighty dollar/bottom line are more important!

                              yeah yeah, go on and tell me about your cost-benefit analyses again and how safety and human life are only worth so much!!!
                              Ah but dear chap, your premise is based on an assumption - that the plane was brought down by the weather...

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by SYDCBRWOD View Post
                                Ah but dear chap, your premise is based on an assumption - that the plane was brought down by the weather...
                                True. I was nibbling on the line that was dangling all that weather bait and the report that atc was directing the flight through "weather"

                                i'll sit back and shut-up for now

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