Boeing to offer 767 in KC-X competition

[BoeingKing77]

I remember something about critical chips in American missiles being imported. I wondered at the time why America was willing to depend on foreign industry for military technology. I understand why corporations will outsource anything and everything. They have no loyalty to any political system, only to their own executives' compensation packages (no they don't feel loyalty to stockholders either, or we wouldnt have had all those banks teetering on the brink of doom).

So I hope its the globalization freaks who are cheering for foreign manufacture of tankers. Them I understand because foreign trade is their real religion. But for those of us who are agnostic, trade is simply something to use for national advantage or not use when not advantageous. And believe me, having a healthy manufacturing base is the mark of a strong country. If anyone isn't a "patriot", fine, but if you really want to live in a WEAK country where foreigners are pulling all the strings, then I have to wonder.

what??

[SYDCBRWOD]

When Boeing merged with McDonnell Douglas they acquired the proven refueling boom from the KC-10 tanker. So Boeing presumably has the KC-135 and KC-10 technology plus technology developed for the operational KC-767.

Not arguing about the history behind this claim - its undeniable that Boeing has the runs on the board, however, their boom has yet to demonstrate the ability to pass 1200gals per minute flow rate (as required by the RFP). The EADS design has passed fuel at this required rate in flight, both on the A310 testbed and the KC-45.

[SYDCBRWOD]

Facts
Why Boeing? Here's why.

FACT: If Boeing wins the contract for America's new Air Force tanker, approximately 50,000 jobs for Boeing and its supply base will be created and supported here in the United States.

FACT: If Airbus wins the contract, a vast majority of the work will be done in France, Germany, Spain, and other European countries with only a small percentage of the work done in final assembly in the United States.

FACT: Boeing invented boom refueling 60 years ago and leads the world in state-of-the-art aerial refueling technology.

FACT: Airbus has never delivered a boom equipped operational tanker to a customer.

FACT: Boeing's tanker would be built at existing plants in the United States. Airbus has not broken ground on its promised Alabama-based tanker plant.

FACT: Boeing has over 155,000 employees in all 50 states. Most recent numbers show that Airbus has about 2,000 employees in the United States.

FACT: Boeing supports an additional 1.2 million supplier related jobs in the United States.

FACT: In 2003, the U.S. Department of Commerce found that Airbus had exaggerated its American job creation claims, claiming at least three times as many American suppliers as it actually had.

FACT: Here is a list of all the companies that provide parts for the 767: http://www.airframer.com/aircraft_de...tml?model=B767

Note: the brakes appear to be French (Messier Bugatti), Elbit is an Israeli company, Alenia is Italian, etc etc. Yep, the 767 is all American...

[BoeingKing77]

FACT: Here is a list of all the companies that provide parts for the 767: http://www.airframer.com/aircraft_de...tml?model=B767

Note: the brakes appear to be French (Messier Bugatti), Elbit is an Israeli company, Alenia is Italian, etc etc. Yep, the 767 is all American...

and the 330 is all french too??Still,the point is,the plant that airbus is saying hasnt even been finalized and it woulnt create as many jobs as it would if boeing won the contract. American Planes for our American Military.

[APS]

and the 330 is all french too??Still,the point is,the plant that airbus is saying hasnt even been finalized and it woulnt create as many jobs as it would if boeing won the contract. American Planes for our American Military.

As I said. Losing battle.

[P3_Super_Bee]

and the 330 is all french too??Still,the point is,the plant that airbus is saying hasnt even been finalized and it woulnt create as many jobs as it would if boeing won the contract. American Planes for our American Military.

Why would you finalize a plant without a contract? Oh yeah lets build a huge production facility and then have nothing to make in it.

You think this would be the first time, there would be a non-US designed aircraft in the military? Wrong.

[Horscht]

Northrop Grumman won't bid against Boeing for tanker contract
By Dominic Gates
Seattle Times aerospace reporter

Northrop Grumman has decided not to bid in the Air Force refueling tanker contract, leaving Boeing's Everett-built 767 as the sole airplane competing for the $40 billion program.

A person familiar with the details said Northrop will announce its decision after the market closes today. The person said that Northrop executives concluded the risk attached to a fixed price contract precluded a low bid, without which they felt they could not win against Boeing.

The Pentagon issued the terms of the new competition on Feb. 24. The terms were widely seen as favoring the 767 over the larger Airbus A330 offered by Northrop.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2011288839_tanker09.html

Northrop to skip tanker bid, EADS mulls going solo
Mon Mar 8, 2010 1:55pm EST

WASHINGTON/PARIS, March 8 (Reuters) - Northrop Grumman Corp plans to announce on Monday that it will not compete for the U.S. Air Force's multibillion-dollar aerial tanker contract, forcing Airbus parent EADS to decide whether it will submit a solo bid, according to sources closely following the issue.

Northrop spokesman Randy Belote declined comment, saying his company would announce a decision when it finished analyzing the Air Force's final request for proposals (RFP).

EADS officials in Paris and Washington also declined comment.

But sources briefed on the decision said Northrop had told EADS it would not bid, forcing EADS to consider its options, including possibly bidding for the work without Northrop despite continuing reservations about how the competition is structured. They said an announcement was expected after the close of the U.S. stock market.

The sources declined to be identified since they were not authorized to speak on the record.
"If they don't see big money, they don't want to do anything," said one European defense source in describing Northrop's decision.

Northrop and EADS won the last competition in February 2008 with an Airbus A330-based tanker plane, but the deal, valued at around $35 billion, was later canceled after government auditors upheld a Boeing Co protest.

Northrop told the Pentagon in December it would not submit a bid in this follow-on competition unless there were significant changes to the Air Force's draft rules, which it said clearly favored Boeing's smaller 767 airplane.

EADS, anxious to add to its defense portfolio and gain a bigger foothold in the United States, has been backing a new bid by Northrop, a European source told Reuters last week. (Reporting by Andrea Shalal-Esa and Tim Hepher in Paris)

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN0818811020100308

[Alessandro]

and the 330 is all french too??Still,the point is,the plant that airbus is saying hasnt even been finalized and it woulnt create as many jobs as it would if boeing won the contract. American Planes for our American Military.

Really? A330 is a jigsaw of parts from all over the planet, just like the B767. Difference is if
final assembly should be in Georgia or Washington.
Another difference is that the B767 is on it´s final leg, A330 isn´t, so a factory in Georgia can provide future sales of A330 both passenger and freight, while the B767 isn´t.

[Eric Diffoot]

Count EADS out as well. I'm surprised. Unless the proposal gets thrown out like the prior 2 competitions, congrats to Boeing, their BITC#$*G has won them the KC-X competition.

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story.jsp?id=news/awx/2010/03/09/awx_03_09_2010_p0-210333.xml&headline=No%20Solo%20KC-X%20Bid%20for%20EADS&channel=defense

No Solo KC-X Bid for EADS


Mar 9, 2010

By Robert Wall [email protected] PARIS

EADS will not mount a solo bid for the U.S. Air Force KC-X tanker program, ending the company’s highest profile effort to grow its footprint in the U.S. market. EADS CEO Louis Gallois ruled out a solo bid a day after the Northrop Grumman-led team involving EADS and the Airbus A330 said it would not respond to the Pentagon’s request for proposals (RFP), saying the tender favored the Boeing-offered KC-767. He also rejected the notion of partnering with someone else. CFO Hans-Peter Ring says that discussions on cancelling the original KC-45 deal continue, but will not materially impact the company. Despite the setback, Gallois insists “the U.S. tanker decision does not diminish our commitment to the U.S.” EADS already has its eye on the next round of competitions, including the Army’s armed scout helicopter and the Air Force’s Common Vertical Lift Support Platform. Moreover, the U.S. remains a target for acquisitions, although EADS isn’t planning any big deals near term as it remains focused on preserving cash. On the A400M, Gallois says a contract to reflect Friday’s agreement on the way forward is expected in a few weeks. It will remain a fixed-price contract, something EADS originally rejected. However, Gallois says there is enough margin back in the program to allow the company to remain with that kind of a contractual structure. The €1.8 billion charge associated with the A400M for 2009 was largely responsible for driving EADS full-year results into the red. The company booked a net loss of €763 million, on revenue of €42.8 billion. The charges did not account for all the risk an independent audit identified, but Gallois believes restructuring of the program that is being completed now will reduce the risk of the €3.6 billion becoming reality. The A400M saga will not be over for some time, however. Claims suppliers have against the prime contractor, as well as those from the prime contractor against suppliers, will take years to sort out, Gallois notes. Other issues to be resolved is how to structure royalty payments countries will get on export sales as a result of the €1.5 export financing levy they are providing as part of the A400M restructuring. Gallois says there is an agreement to keep the royalty payment at a level so it will not hurt export pricing. Meantime, European political leaders are blasting the U.S. for perceived protectionism on KC-X, saying the request for proposals favored rivals. Although it had no direct involvement in the program, European Union’s trade commissioner, Karel de Gucht says that “it is highly regrettable that a major potential supplier would feel unable to bid for a contract of this type. Open procurement markets guarantee better competition and better value for money for the taxpayer.” The EU says it will watch the situation further. U.S. Deputy Defense Secretary Bill Lynn attempted to address such concerns immediately in reacting to Northrop’s withdrawal. “The department strongly supports trans-Atlantic defense industrial ties and believes they benefit the American war-fighter and taxpayer,” he said late March 8. The EU notes that defense trade balance has heavily favored the U.S. In 2008, the U.S. exported $5 billion from EU members and imported only $2.2 billion. The statement comes as the EU is still trying to bring down trade barrier on intra-EU defense trade. The European Union’s message was echoed by Germany’s economics minister Rainer Bruederle. The RFP clearly favored Boeing, he says, adding that “also in defense procurement, free trade should not be curtailed. Particularly in the current economic downturn, event indicators of protectionism are damaging.”

[Eaglefan68]

Count EADS out as well. I'm surprised. Unless the proposal gets thrown out like the prior 2 competitions, congrats to Boeing, their BITC#$*G has won them the KC-X competition.

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story.jsp?id=news/awx/2010/03/09/awx_03_09_2010_p0-210333.xml&headline=No%20Solo%20KC-X%20Bid%20for%20EADS&channel=defense

No Solo KC-X Bid for EADS


Mar 9, 2010

By Robert Wall [email protected] PARIS

EADS will not mount a solo bid for the U.S. Air Force KC-X tanker program, ending the company’s highest profile effort to grow its footprint in the U.S. market. EADS CEO Louis Gallois ruled out a solo bid a day after the Northrop Grumman-led team involving EADS and the Airbus A330 said it would not respond to the Pentagon’s request for proposals (RFP), saying the tender favored the Boeing-offered KC-767. He also rejected the notion of partnering with someone else. CFO Hans-Peter Ring says that discussions on cancelling the original KC-45 deal continue, but will not materially impact the company. Despite the setback, Gallois insists “the U.S. tanker decision does not diminish our commitment to the U.S.” EADS already has its eye on the next round of competitions, including the Army’s armed scout helicopter and the Air Force’s Common Vertical Lift Support Platform. Moreover, the U.S. remains a target for acquisitions, although EADS isn’t planning any big deals near term as it remains focused on preserving cash. On the A400M, Gallois says a contract to reflect Friday’s agreement on the way forward is expected in a few weeks. It will remain a fixed-price contract, something EADS originally rejected. However, Gallois says there is enough margin back in the program to allow the company to remain with that kind of a contractual structure. The €1.8 billion charge associated with the A400M for 2009 was largely responsible for driving EADS full-year results into the red. The company booked a net loss of €763 million, on revenue of €42.8 billion. The charges did not account for all the risk an independent audit identified, but Gallois believes restructuring of the program that is being completed now will reduce the risk of the €3.6 billion becoming reality. The A400M saga will not be over for some time, however. Claims suppliers have against the prime contractor, as well as those from the prime contractor against suppliers, will take years to sort out, Gallois notes. Other issues to be resolved is how to structure royalty payments countries will get on export sales as a result of the €1.5 export financing levy they are providing as part of the A400M restructuring. Gallois says there is an agreement to keep the royalty payment at a level so it will not hurt export pricing. Meantime, European political leaders are blasting the U.S. for perceived protectionism on KC-X, saying the request for proposals favored rivals. Although it had no direct involvement in the program, European Union’s trade commissioner, Karel de Gucht says that “it is highly regrettable that a major potential supplier would feel unable to bid for a contract of this type. Open procurement markets guarantee better competition and better value for money for the taxpayer.” The EU says it will watch the situation further. U.S. Deputy Defense Secretary Bill Lynn attempted to address such concerns immediately in reacting to Northrop’s withdrawal. “The department strongly supports trans-Atlantic defense industrial ties and believes they benefit the American war-fighter and taxpayer,” he said late March 8. The EU notes that defense trade balance has heavily favored the U.S. In 2008, the U.S. exported $5 billion from EU members and imported only $2.2 billion. The statement comes as the EU is still trying to bring down trade barrier on intra-EU defense trade. The European Union’s message was echoed by Germany’s economics minister Rainer Bruederle. The RFP clearly favored Boeing, he says, adding that “also in defense procurement, free trade should not be curtailed. Particularly in the current economic downturn, event indicators of protectionism are damaging.”

And in a new twist, the French President will meet with the President on March 30th and tell him that the RFP was not fair and amounts to protectionism.

This could be solved real quick by canceling the procurement of new aircraft in favor of re-engining some KC-135Es up to the KC-135R specification.

[BoeingKing77]

I wouldnt say boeing is whining

[APS]

I was reasonably sure that Boeing would re-enter with the 777. The fact they've simple offered the 767 means they must have been very confident the new tendering process would be "fairer" ...

Make what you will of the air quotes.

[landing-gear]

The whole thing stinks!!!!!!!!
Good luck to USAF flying their old KC 767's

There must be some serious backhanders doing the rounds......

[BoeingKing77]

The whole thing stinks!!!!!!!!
Good luck to USAF flying their old KC 767's

There must be some serious backhanders doing the rounds......

hey,if the planes are good, the planes will last.

[SYDCBRWOD]

And in a new twist, the French President will meet with the President on March 30th and tell him that the RFP was not fair and amounts to protectionism.

This could be solved real quick by canceling the procurement of new aircraft in favor of re-engining some KC-135Es up to the KC-135R specification.

Solved? We are talking about airframes that are up to 70 years old. That is not to say they are useless or clapped out, but with anticipated service life of another 30-40 years, they'd be 100 years old before being retired! Think about that 100 year old wiring etc... There comes a point where obsolescence IS an issue (spare parts availability, the need to service parts of the aircraft that were originally probably designed to be for a 30 year life etc.).