Air India Express 738 crash at Mangalore

[xspeedy]

From ABC News:

"The International Civil Aviation Organization and pilots' groups have urged airports worldwide to construct 300 meter (yard)-long safety extensions at the end of each runway for extra protection. Older airports in built-up areas or those in tight locations with little room for extensions are advised to install soft ground layers — known as arrestor beds — to slow planes, much as escape ramps on highways can stop trucks when their brakes fail." (http://abcnews.go.com/International/...0716171&page=3)


Seems like that would help with this airport.

I thought I saw somewhere a shorter overrun area that has foam (kind of like a dense styrofoam) that brings A/C to a pretty quick but non destructive halt. Sort of like the gravel traps at race tracks. The foam is probably a few feet tall so only the gear travels through it.

[SYDCBRWOD]

I thought I saw somewhere a shorter overrun area that has foam (kind of like a dense styrofoam) that brings A/C to a pretty quick but non destructive halt. Sort of like the gravel traps at race tracks. The foam is probably a few feet tall so only the gear travels through it.

This stuff? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enginee...rrestor_system

Not foam, concrete.

[tailspin]

No ILS VMC Calm Dry runway
Most of the media hype so far is to do with the runway length and location.
The runway is plenty long enough for this aircraft. Should stop in 1600m.
And where did they get this nonsense from that an international runway has to be 2700 metres long?
Looks like he came in hot and high. Landed long burst a tire and ran off the runway.
Could be failure to initiate a go around when in an unstabilized approach.
Common problem.
You could say the airport surroundings were a factor in the break up of the aircraft and the fire, but, the intention is to keep the aircraft on the runway!

[mecheil.edwar]

From ABC News:

"The International Civil Aviation Organization and pilots' groups have urged airports worldwide to construct 300 meter (yard)-long safety extensions at the end of each runway for extra protection. Older airports in built-up areas or those in tight locations with little room for extensions are advised to install soft ground layers — known as arrestor beds — to slow planes, much as escape ramps on highways can stop trucks when their brakes fail." (http://abcnews.go.com/International/...0716171&page=3)


Seems like that would help with this airport.

Thank you for this information

[mecheil.edwar]

Del message

[tailspin]

Thank you for this information

This would obviously be a good idea but may not be possible at a lot of airports. Recommendations and requirements are entirely different things.
And in the end it all comes down to momentum = mass x velocity !

[Crunk415balla]

within one week we heared 3 planes crashed

Libyan plane
Afghnstan Plane
and Now Indian Plane!!!!!!!!!!!!

and Pilot mistakessssssssssssssssssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you're over the age of 16, then I'm scared.

Looks like a very, very bad place to over-run. Damn shame.

[EconomyClass]

How would a slight extension of a 9000 foot runway help? Something went on there that wasn't about the length of the runway.

[Peter Kesternich]

The report said they clipped the localizer with a wingtip, so they would have to be off centerline at that point, yes?

Hmmmm - I'd say that at the end of the runway the pilot would try to steer around any obstacle as much as possible and that would include the localizer aerial sitting on the extended centerline of the runway. Now these things are not very sturdy and normally will collapse without doing much damage to a plane but the instinct of the pilots would stil be to avoid the obstacle.

How would a slight extension of a 9000 foot runway help? Something went on there that wasn't about the length of the runway.

Sometimes 10ft is difference between going over a cliff or staying on the runway. The extension that people are talking about here, however, is a kind of arrestor bed that will slow an aircraft down just like a truck escape ramp on a steep hill will slow a runaway truck.

[Peter Kesternich]

within one week we heared 3 planes crashed

Libyan plane
Afghnstan Plane
and Now Indian Plane!!!!!!!!!!!!

and Pilot mistakessssssssssssssssssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you're over the age of 16, then I'm scared. (...)

So am I...

[excelsior]

Looks like a late touchdown and a botched Rwy GA, possibly compounded by a blown tire that pulled them off centerline and into the localizer aerial. Survivor reports indicate heavy braking and vibration, which makes me wonder if they were attempting GA after reversers. If this is accurate, the question becomes, why the late touchdown in favorable conditions?

-or-

When landing on a tabletop runway, does a blown tire require a Rwy GA to a safer alternate?

On the hypothesis yes new info reveals that pilot did apply reversers, in which case I am afraid we have to accept that the crassh was due to pilot error... (GA attempted post reversers) Late touchdown may be because Indian pilots by and large have to account for G1.6+ landings, classified (rightly) as ""hard"" to flight safety dept. So you try and float a bit as you come in and here the runway was plenty long... if you miscalculate the float then obviously you overshoot...

I would not contemplate GA once down especially with blown tyre, certainly know of no such requirement on the Heavies I operate nowadays (which have more tyre redundancy) so would be very surprised if such exists for twinjets

[old timer]

Was it confirmed that this aircraft had blown tires prior landing? fficeffice" />>>
Were both thrust reversers operating? Were all ground spoilers operating? >>
>>
Only a few info came out which makes it hard to conclude any thing>>
> >
From little info available it might be wrong calculation of speed and ALT (floating) . coupled with some technical difficulties after landing (ie T/R, BRAKE SYS , HYD failure(leaks) etc..) which resulted in overshooting the runway , >>
> >
Pilot error may also play part for not following the right procedure >>
Having said that I believe it is too premature to determine what went wrong >>
> >
> >
My condolences to the victims families and friends >>
> >

[Peter Kesternich]

old timer - I think it might be a good idea to stick to the normal typoe face and avoid too man emoticons... makes it much easier for us all to read your entries

[excelsior]

good points, Old time,r and well taken.


All... Apparently the CVR has been located but not the FDR...

[excelsior]

Here are two posts on IXE airfield safety from india, both top aviation people

(1) The former director of Bajpe Airport and pilots came out strongly in support of the table top airport.


Former director of Mangalore Airport and Coimbatore Airport General Manager MR Vasudeva hitting out at critics singling out the length of runway, said the length of runway was sufficient to handle Boeing 735-800 Aircrafts.

As against the stipulated two km, the concrete runway with a width of 46 mts is extended up to 2.5 km, he said.

“Korean-made precision approach Path Indicators and 100 Korean lights on either side of the runway had not failed. Since four years, aircrafts have been landing and why is the issue of short runways being raised now,” he asks.

(2) Dismissing reservations about the safety of the tabletop runway at Bajpe airport in Mangalore, where an Air India Express aircraft crashed, Vice Chief Air Marshal PK Barbora on Sunday said there was no problem with the airstrip.

"There is no problem with the airstrip there. I don't see any problem", he said on the sidelines of the inaugural ceremony of the maiden fight of the Light Combat Helicopter (LCH) at HAL airport here.