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Driving is faster than flying in America

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  • Driving is faster than flying in America

    Had a flight from Columbus, Ohio to Memphis the other night delay 6.5 hours due to a mechanical problem in New York. Checked the airlines web site and flight aware, CHQ6008 is routinely late for the flight from CMH to MEM. Missed connections in Memphis and stayed the night in a hotel thanks to Delta Airlines. Got to Amarillo at 3:30 the next day. Total travel time was 25 hours. You can drive from Columbus to Amarillo in 20 hours! In numerous instances with all of the security stupidity and delays, it is probably faster to drive than fly in the US.
    If driving isn't always faster, then flying a Cessna 172 is most likely faster most of the time.
    How long will the airlines survive with such poor service?
    My photos at JP.net

    National Air Traffic Controllers Association

  • #2
    You had a bad experience.

    While it isn't rare, it isn't the norm either.

    The airlines aren't going away because it took you 24 hours to do a 20-hour car trip.

    One rule of thumb is that if you can drive it in 8 hours, it does not "pay" to fly.

    On average, the airlines will do a lot better than your 24 hour experience- and that is why they will stay in business.

    No question that private or charter flights can also smoke the airlines for certain trips.

    Then again, price out that 172. It's going to be a lot more expensive unless you can fill several seats. And, hope that there's no line of thunderstorms, icing, or a headwind that will have cars passing the 172.

    I'm with you that the service can be extremely crappy- you note that your one flight is chronically late- and imply your connection would often not be made.

    On the other hand, do you ever shop around to find the lowest fare you can find?

    Airlines suck, but we passengers need to look in the mirror too.
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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    • #3
      ^Agreed 100%.

      Not all airlines suck btw. There are good ones out there that actually do care about service for their customers.

      And if your car/vehicle breaks down? Then what? That 20-hour car ride just got longer, by how much is again dependent on a lot of variables.

      My parents and I had to stay overnight in Atlanta once because we missed our connecting DL flight to OKC. The reason? The Air France flight from CDG had technical problems and got delayed. It happens.

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      • #4
        My son went to school in northern Maine. We had been hustling him (or trying to), on Continental Express into Portland.

        After so many delays and flights canceled the straws that broke my back were when the flight was canceled due to weather. I looked at the map and it was ceiling 10,000 and visibility of like 5 miles over the coming hours.

        Another time they told me that "The FAA closed the airport" but when I noted that all of the other airlines didn't cancel and were still flying, that was it.

        Another time they canceled after the bus from school left and he was stranded alone (no support), with a kid. I asked them if they could see that he got on an airport shuttle to a hotel and they said "sorry we do no assistance".

        I got a call from him a few minutes later and he and another kid got on a bus for Boston. Now, at 14 or 15 you don't go nuts worrying but that, is still wrong. That is a pretty small airport and they aren't real busy.

        I was only on the highway once when the headwind would stimey a 172 and trust me, you didn't want to be driving either.

        It was much easier on the two of us for me to drive the 510 miles and return in the same shot. If it was going to be winter and "IFR", I packed my 4X4 with food and blankets or drove my Corvette in nice weather.

        Funny, I was never once delayed or canceled. Unless the situation isn't "feet wet", and under a 1,000 miles, I'll drive.
        Live, from a grassy knoll somewhere near you.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by guamainiac View Post

          After so many delays and flights canceled the straws that broke my back were when the flight was canceled due to weather. I looked at the map and it was ceiling 10,000 and visibility of like 5 miles over the coming hours.
          Did you look at the enroute weather?

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          • #6
            Yes, I sure did. It was real good for just about anyone much less a professional. Extended over that evening wasn't bad either. In essence from what I remember it was legal VRF.

            I even took a look at weather at the other airports they served and it was good. I figured "the benefit of the doubt" if equipment was tied up at another location.

            There always situations but a few times I caught them pants down.

            "FAA closed the airport" for just them and no other airlines?

            I am not a real bright bulb but I know a few of the questions to ask.
            Live, from a grassy knoll somewhere near you.

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            • #7
              And for someone whose job relies on air traffic, you should be thanking them.

              Shit happens. They say the same thing when crap happens with you all.
              Tanner Johnson - Owner
              twenty53 Photography

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              • #8
                What? Read the post again. They probably did not book enough on the flight for profit so the bag it at the drop of a hat.

                The weather was fine. Most any private SEL could have flown that and Continental Express bags for weather? Fine for AA, they were still flying ???

                I don't give a rats petuttie if you "rely on air traffic", how is that "doing me a favor".

                Tanner J . . . if the guy can't handle 10,000 and 5 miles with light wind, I don't want to be riding behind him/her, so I guess they did do me a favor.

                I fully sympathize with all of the fine crew members out there who work long hard, hard hours. The mechs (I did a few years with a "minor" carrier) who really sweat and freeze and "skin" knuckles to the bone working in some hell hole that was never intended to accommodate "the human body", to those who take crap from drunken passengers and the like.

                As noted in my log, "Your job isn't to get there on time, your job is to get there", I fully, fully understand the concept during lesson #6, "Mike" was not a half bad instructor despite the fact he was not a CFI and was teaching illegally, those words have stayed with me. At least you listened to your dad.

                take me back to the days .. how one of the Portland gang got their name, the crew would stumble out of the bar and then put it in the harbor.
                Live, from a grassy knoll somewhere near you.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                  One rule of thumb is that if you can drive it in 8 hours, it does not "pay" to fly.
                  Oh no. The proverbial cat has been let out of the bag here in Los Angeles. Now all my friends and family will be coming here from SFO and LAS to visit just on the money they'll save on a plane ticket. Thanks 3WE.

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                  • #10
                    In most cases I've found it is cheaper to fly then drive using my driving cost of around 55-cent/mile. Of course that assumes just one person driving (and definitely does not work for overseas flights).

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                    • #11
                      Under normal conditions it's faster for me to drive if the destination is ~6-7 hours driving. Since the drive from Prescott to PHX takes ~2 hours (depending on traffic), as PHX is the nearest airport with air service to major cities, plus 2-3 hours for check-in and security, that's already 4-5 hours. San Diego is a 6 hour drive from Prescott, add an hour of flight to those 4-5 hours, and it takes the same amount of time. Cost shouldn't be that different, but I drive an SUV. It should take me ~$80-90 worth of gas to make such a drive (based on the previous trip to Vegas, which took about 3/4 of a tank one way).

                      I also have to take into account that I can either drive to PHX, for about $30/way plus parking fees, or take a shuttle service which is $34/way.

                      But traveling from Prescott to Monterrey is still easier, faster and safer by plane (and cheaper too)
                      [SIGNATURE GOES HERE]

                      Felipe Garcia

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                      • #12
                        When there is flow into a hub, regional airlines are the ones to get the brunt of it. I challenge you to find a route by a regional that has more than a 70% ontime record. I doubt you'll find it.

                        Don't be one of the people who says "This flight is ALWAYS late" just because the 2 times you visited your niece in Palm Springs this year, the flight was delayed a few hours. I assure you the majority of the time, it was on time.

                        I flew on over 120 flights last year. I spent maybe 3 hours total waiting around delayed. Had only 1 flight cancel on me too, but I would have missed it anyway. I don't fly when the weather is bad and mechanicals are rare. I've never misconnected in my life thus far either(knock on wood). Keep in mind I only live 10 minutes from SFO, which is a hub so I hardly ever have to connect, and hardly ever buy tickets, so I have a lot more flexibility than most people.

                        Also, I like how people are saying they'd rather drive 8 hours. Really? My car gets 12MPG. The most expensive ticket I can think of within "driving distance" of SFO is SBA, which can regularly be around $400 roundtrip. The drive is 318 miles...so 636 roundtrip. Gas here is $3.40 a gallon at the cheapest places. So I'm looking at about $180+ roundtrip for gas, minimum, assuming its that cheap the whole way down. Plus the drive is about 6 hours each way. That is 12 hours of driving. Roundtrip flight time is about 2 hours 15 minutes(gate to gate). I always check in online and show up to the airport right at closing, 30 minutes before, never miss my flights. So thats about 45-30 minutes in each airport. So we're looking at 3 hours and 45 minutes total in airports/airplanes. I save about $220 driving(assuming I have to pay full fare). Is $220 worth 12 hours of driving(with NO traffic) and the wear and tare on my gas guzzling Cadillac Fleetwood? To me, no its not. I'd glady pay $220 more to save 8 hours and 15 minutes of my life and the exhaustion of driving so far. But that's me. My friends who drive to LA argue with me about how much cheaper it is to drive and have your own car down there. Last time I bought a ticket to LAX, it was $98 roundtrip after tax on Southwest. Last time I rented a car in LA, it was $33/day after taxes(gas AND GPS included). It is a little further of a drive than SBA. 6 hour drive vs. 50 minute flight. To each his own.
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                        http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=170

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by guamainiac View Post
                          ...the flight was canceled due to weather. I looked at the map and it was ceiling 10,000 and visibility of like 5 miles over the coming hours....

                          Another time they told me that "The FAA closed the airport" but when I noted that all of the other airlines didn't cancel and were still flying, that was it....
                          A pilot who frequents several avaition fora once pointed out that the gate agents (and flight attendants) have very little training on aviation particulars.

                          You are right, there's definately a problem with them saying things "that sound good" that have nothing to do with the truth (yes it's lying, but their intention is to sound better than "we have no freaking clue why the flight is delayed).

                          "The FAA closed the airport" sounds good. One favorite I heard in St. Louis was that the crew was calling the control tower at Dallas to see if the storms would be clearing."

                          Regarding weather- it is also a bit more complex. There are airports when the weather gets just a little bad, they have to do instrument approaches and lose a good chunk of capacity versus good weather. That's all that's needed for the domino / house-of-cards effect where delays magify and suddenly there's mis-positioned planes and flights must be canceled. (not good, but another symptom of our dirt-cheap system).

                          Unfortuantely- the reasons are a lot more complicated than gate agents can realy deal with - PLUS they have a serious problem dealing with disgruntled passengers. There is an art and science to dealing with passengers- and what you say is part of that. So, bending the truth a little bit happens- PLUS the very evidence you cite- I'm sure there was a weather issue, but something more complicated than being hard IFR....she told the truth but that wasn't good enough. (not blasting you- just being analyitical).

                          My 8-hour = drive it rule sure generated a few comments of disagreement. I never said it was a hard rule- just a rule of thumb. And to those who want to cite cherry-picked data to say it's a bad rule, I can just as easily cherry pick data to support it. A canceled flight delays you two hours, add a three hour layover, an hour to check in, an hour to get out. Maybe you have another hour delay on the runway due to traffic saturation, and then go ride the shuttle bus to rent a car and deal with your lost suitcase...

                          Sure there's exceptions, but it's a valid rule of thumb!
                          Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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