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Thread: Need Help Landing

  1. #1
    Member porter guy's Avatar
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    Default Need Help Landing

    I am having trouble being perfectly lined up with the runway at airports. I push the APP button but it does nothing. My plane doesn't line up and it doesn't descend. Can anyone help?
    I'm the guy... Porter Guy

  2. #2
    Senior Member z740's Avatar
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    Push the stick forward, trees get bigger. Pull the stick back, trees get smaller and then bigger.

    On a more serious note, make sure you have the appropriate frequency set into the NAV1 and make sure altitude hold is turned off. As long as you get lines up with the approach path and do everything properly it should work. There are a few videos on YouTube you could look at to try and remedy the problem that way. Happy flying!

    -Chris

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    Member porter guy's Avatar
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    thanks a lot man. I have never used the APP button when landing and the first time I tried it today it messed up the landing
    I'm the guy... Porter Guy

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    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
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    I would suggest a different approach.

    Make sure that you select the ILS frequency in the NAV1 radio.
    Check the map, click on the ILS sign (that long and slender arrow) and it will show you the frequency and also the exact heading. Also click on the airport and check its elevation.

    1) Descend and level-off to an altitude of 2000 or 2500 ft above the airfield elevation. To do that, select the desired altitude in the AP and set ALT HOLD.

    2) Using the heading selector and the HEADING HOLD mode, set your heading to intercept the extended runway centerline with an angle of some 30 degrees and at a distance of some 10 to 15 NM from the airport.(*)

    3) While doing all that, go reducing speeds and extending flaps and landing gear to have your plane fully configured for landing. Use the autothrottle to hold the desired final approach speed.

    4) You should be stabilized both on your altitude and heading and with the plane fully configured for landing and with the speed at the desired final approach speed, all that before the ILS needles start to move. If they start to move before that, then abort, go around and try again.

    5) Before the ILS needles start to move, select APP. The APP will remain on standby and will not activate yet, and the ALT HOLD and HEADING HOLD modes will remain active.

    6) Eventually, the ILS needles will start to move, likely not both at the same time. When the plane is about to intercept the localizer (that is, when the "VOR" needle is about to cross the center) the heading mode will turn off by itself and the approach mode will take command of the horizontal navigation, capturing and tracking the localizer. The GS needle will always come from above, because the preceding instruction will place your plane to intercept the glide slope from below. When the airplane is about to intercept the glide slope (that is, when the GS needle is about to cross the center, the ALT HOLD mode will disengage itself and the APP mode will take command of the vertical navigation, capturing and tracking the glide slope. Usually, if you manage to intercept the extended centerline 10 to 15 miles from the airport, the plane will intercept first the localizer and then the glide slope. But in any case, the AP will handle the capture of the localizer and of the glide slope independently one from the other and in any order.

    7) Unless you have a very good auto-land, I'd recommend to disconnect the AP somewhere between 100 ft and 200 ft above the airport elevation, the the auto throttle before the flare as the latest. Good luck with the hand landing

    (*) If you have problems doing that, do as follows: Overfly the runway on a heading exactly opposite to the landing heading. It's not so important that you overfly exactly above the runway, but it is that you do it at exactly the opposite heading (use heading hold). You can do this at anything between 2000 and 4000 ft above the airport elevation. The speed must be below 250 kts. Keep flying. Once you overfly the airport, if the you don't have some instrument that show you the distance from the airport (not all airports have a DME), start a stopwatch. Also start to descent towards 2000 to 2500ft (use vet speed hold and then altitude hold), to slow down to the approach speed while you extend flaps and gear until the plane is fully configured for landing. Use the autothrottle to hold the approach speed. Once you are at 10 NM from the airport, select a heading 30 degrees off the current heading, could be left or right. Once the plane is close to complete the turn and starts to level the wings, reset and start the stopwatch. Fly the new heading for one minute and a half. Then turn 180 degrees to the opposite direction. Use again the heading select to do this. I'll advise you to select some intermediate heading first, wait a few seconds until the plane has turned quite a few degrees, and then select the final heading. That is because if you select 180 degrees off your current heading at once, the plane doesn't know which way to turn, and it could turn in the opposite direction even if you moved the heading bug in the correct direction. Once the turn is complete, you will be at an intersecting course 30 degrees off the localizer course. You should also be flying fully configured for the landing by then and at about the final approach speed. Continue from point 4 above.

    Disclaimer 1: This is a wide, slow paced, easy approach, to begin getting used to it. As you gain expertise, you can start to tighten up things. The limit is that, by 1000ft above the airport elevation, the plane should be established on the localizer and on the glide slope, fully configured for landing, flying at the final approach speed, smoothly following all three parameters (glide slope, localizer and speed) with no more than minor corrections, and the final checklist must be complete.

    Disclaimer 2: This is a generic ILS approach procedure for use in Flight Simulator as an entertainment. In real flight you must follow approved instrument approaches procedures, and even in Flight Simulator, once you nail the first couple of approaches using the procedure explained above, it can be a lot of fun following the real instrument approach plates.

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    Member porter guy's Avatar
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    I tried everything in the first suggestion last night but my CRJ-700 didn't start descending when I turned APP on, am I doing things to late? I hit the button when I enter the green triangle on the GPS tracker
    I'm the guy... Porter Guy

  6. #6
    Senior Member z740's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by porter guy View Post
    I tried everything in the first suggestion last night but my CRJ-700 didn't start descending when I turned APP on, am I doing things to late? I hit the button when I enter the green triangle on the GPS tracker
    I'd take a look at Gabriel's advice. He seems to have a much better grasp on the topic than I do.

  7. #7
    Senior Member 3WE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by z740 View Post
    Push the stick forward, trees get bigger. Pull the stick back, trees get smaller and then bigger.
    Seriously...

    YES Seriously- this is how I learned to land flight sim (and I had a private license first).

    It's harder to do in MSFS....the visual clues are just not the same.

    Just point the nose where you want to go power off and to heck with the airspeed- look for "the ground rushing up" which is your clue to start flaring/rounding out/holding off....gradually do that and burn off your speed until you are slow enough to touch down...you actually should probably aim for somewhere BEFORE the runway.

    You will develop a better sense for alignment and vertical perspective after the 100th try (exageratting slightly).

    (In the meantime read a lot).

    When you are nailing the crazy-steep approaches both horizontally and vertically THEN....

    ...THEN you can work on the 3-degree slope- VASI lights, ILS coupled approaches, proper airspeed, and all that good stuff...

    PS don't be afraid to land on open ground either...to heck with runways for a while.
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

  8. #8
    Senior Member LH-B744's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by porter guy View Post
    I tried everything in the first suggestion last night but my CRJ-700 didn't start descending when I turned APP on, am I doing things to late? I hit the button when I enter the green triangle on the GPS tracker
    Well, can you say which CRJ-700 and which simulator do you use? Some 4 or 5 years ago, there has been a CRJ freeware version for fs9, which I was using for a couple of flights. Afaik, there has also been a Wilco CRJ-700 for fs9, which was made for the more experienced simulator users.

    But I am using fsx since quite a time. So, if you are a fs9 user, I might not be a big help for you. Do you have a manual for your CRJ?
    LH also has a intercontinental history, the Hamburg - Düsseldorf - Shannon - NYC route, open since June 1st, 1955.
    A/C type: Lockheed Super Constellation.
    The operator on the DUS - NYC route, on the DUS - BKK route, and on the shiny new DUS - LAS nonstop route? EW, one of the dearest LH daughters .

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