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Thread: Whos phasing out 747s in the coming months

  1. #181

  2. #182
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    Corsair International (Paris Orly, France) always use 3 744 F-GTUI, F-HSUN, F-HSEA.
    The first 744 CRL will be phase out in 2020, the second one in 2021 with the arrival of first Airbus A330-900.

    https://www.aeroport-paris-orly.com/previsions

    Jean-Charles
    aeroport-paris-orly.com

  3. #183
    Senior Member LH-B744's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATLcrew View Post
    Is that VP-BAT? Who bought it?
    Good question. I just wonder if that weren't a good bird for a museum somewhere in Germany, or somewhere. A 747 SP, so, inauguration flight July 1975.

    In total, 44 Boeing 747SP have been built between 1975 and 1982. So, the youngest 747SP today is 37 years old. Ah, finally I've found a source, in German, but I can translate if you want.
    https://www.aerotelegraph.com/luxus-...-boeing-747-sp

    Qatari 747SP for sale, the previous owner: the emir of Qatar. But this is a source which was published in 2016. And the a/c is born March 30th 1979. So, 40 years old. You can buy it, I can buy it.

    ATL, why don't you. No fix price, so smile and say a number.

    PS: LUNN knows the procedure.. he mentions 1 owner who sells a 747, and I mention 5 who fly the Jumbo Jet.
    1. Aviation beauty in cinemascope, THE silhouette, from wingtip to wingtip, senior members choice, worthy of an award.
    Virgin Atlantic B744 shows a picture book arrival, August 2018
    2. The well known airline who recently deleted the date for their last 747 flight (?!):
    An English B744 in New York, May 2019
    3. Who recently deleted the date for their last 747 flight (an idea was the year 2018, but a quite brilliant platform shows that this is not true):
    Type Qantas B744ER, we are rolling.
    Destination? Chek Lap Kok?
    4. Ahm. Only one of the less important competitors. Member of the Boeing 747 club since 1970.
    The Victor Papa shows THE colors for a tailfin, Rio Galeao, April 2019

    .... ...
    Last edited by LH-B744; 06-06-2019 at 01:08 AM. Reason: A Living Legend.
    LH also has a intercontinental history, the Hamburg - Düsseldorf - Shannon - NYC route, open since June 1st, 1955.
    A/C type: Lockheed Super Constellation.
    The operator on the DUS - NYC route, on the DUS - BKK route, and on the shiny new DUS - LAS nonstop route? EW, one of the dearest LH daughters .

    Aviation enthusiast since more than 30 years. A whole decade here on this platform.

  4. #184
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    My only flight on an SP was the shortest 747 flight I ever made, China Airlines from Taipei to Hongkong. When introduced in the 70s, it was the ultra long haul airliner of its day.

  5. #185
    Member ATLcrew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LH-B744 View Post
    Good question. I just wonder if that weren't a good bird for a museum somewhere in Germany, or somewhere. A 747 SP, so, inauguration flight July 1975.

    In total, 44 Boeing 747SP have been built between 1975 and 1982. So, the youngest 747SP today is 37 years old. Ah, finally I've found a source, in German, but I can translate if you want.
    https://www.aerotelegraph.com/luxus-...-boeing-747-sp

    Qatari 747SP for sale, the previous owner: the emir of Qatar. But this is a source which was published in 2016. And the a/c is born March 30th 1979. So, 40 years old. You can buy it, I can buy it.

    ATL, why don't you. No fix price, so smile and say a number.
    My sources tell me the current asking price is $9.5 million including a fresh C check and new paint. Sounds like the Qataris basically dumped it. They were originally asking $25 million. I'd love to buy it, I'm not sure a cooler personal airplane exists. Paint it probably in 747SP prototype house colors. Do angel flights and airshows. That would be fun!

  6. #186
    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATLcrew View Post
    My sources tell me the current asking price is $9.5 million including a fresh C check and new paint. Sounds like the Qataris basically dumped it. They were originally asking $25 million. I'd love to buy it, I'm not sure a cooler personal airplane exists. Paint it probably in 747SP prototype house colors. Do angel flights and airshows. That would be fun!
    I guess that purchasing the plane is the least of the costs. How much is just a hangar for it, per year? How much is a flight hour? Fuel, allowances for maintenance, crew of 3 required (and you CAN'T pay them by the flight hour unless you guarantee a minimum of flight hours per month, you likely need to pay them just to have them available, and you need to keep them current too).

    So how many millions per year if you fly say 300 hours per year?

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

  7. #187
    Member ATLcrew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    I guess that purchasing the plane is the least of the costs. How much is just a hangar for it, per year? How much is a flight hour? Fuel, allowances for maintenance, crew of 3 required (and you CAN'T pay them by the flight hour unless you guarantee a minimum of flight hours per month, you likely need to pay them just to have them available, and you need to keep them current too).

    So how many millions per year if you fly say 300 hours per year?
    I actually ran some rough numbers on this just because why not? The fuel will be roughly $100,000 per fillup. So, at 25 hours a month, let's call it 3 fillups a month, so that puts us at $3.6M per year in fuel. It's on Boeing's Low Utilization Maintenance Program, whereby a lot of stuff is just paid per month, plus with fresh C check it should be good for major stuff for a while, plus it comes with a lot of stuff already, so I'd be comfortable with $1.5M yearly routine Mx budget, which translates to about $5,000/hr on top of the LUMP itself which is probably that much again. There actually are contract pilots available for this sort of work, and yes, you do pay them (or their agency) by the hour. Still, with hotels, per diem etc, just to use round numbers, let's go with $1000/hr per crewmember. So, that's another $300,000 per year. A hangar big enough for that thing would be hard to find, so might have to build one. That's at least $10M, plus we add parking/landing fees at destination, so let's go with another $1M per year in parking/hangaring. Add various incidental costs (catering, limos etc), probably another $1M. So, I come up with +/- $9M/year, which is $30,000/hr, which for an airplane that awesome is probably not that bad.
    .

  8. #188
    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATLcrew View Post
    I actually ran some rough numbers on this just because why not?
    Exactly!

    So, I come up with +/- $9M/year, which is $30,000/hr, which for an airplane that awesome is probably not that bad.
    Not saying it is bad, but it is more than what most (almost all) mortals can afford.

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

  9. #189
    Member ATLcrew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Exactly!



    Not saying it is bad, but it is more than what most (almost all) mortals can afford.
    MOST mortals can't afford a VW Beetle.

  10. #190
    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATLcrew View Post
    MOST mortals can't afford a VW Beetle.
    True. But the fraction of people who can't afford a 747 SP is much much MUCH closer to 100% than those who can't afford a VW Beetle. You and I, for example.

    While most mortals can't afford a VW Beetle, the fraction that can is at least a few % points.
    On the other hand, the fraction that can afford a 747 SP can be rounded to the second decimal point percent as 0.00%.

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

  11. #191
    Member ATLcrew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    True. But the fraction of people who can't afford a 747 SP is much much MUCH closer to 100% than those who can't afford a VW Beetle. You and I, for example.

    While most mortals can't afford a VW Beetle, the fraction that can is at least a few % points.
    On the other hand, the fraction that can afford a 747 SP can be rounded to the second decimal point percent as 0.00%.
    Very well, you have convinced me, I'll go with this instead.

    https://www.controller.com/listings/...5-douglas-dc-3

  12. #192
    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
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    Beautiful.

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

  13. #193
    Senior Member LH-B744's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATLcrew View Post
    My sources tell me the current asking price is $9.5 million including a fresh C check and new paint. Sounds like the Qataris basically dumped it. They were originally asking $25 million. I'd love to buy it, I'm not sure a cooler personal airplane exists. Paint it probably in 747SP prototype house colors. Do angel flights and airshows. That would be fun!
    I don't need sources to know that 9,500,000 $ for a 747 is nothing. There are sources where we can find the price for a LH-B744, by then when it was brandnew. But what number would you say if I tried to sell you, let's say, a 30 year old LH-B744. I have D-ABVP in my mind, assumed that she stays within my favorite airline until she's 30.
    Now you like to know when she was born. February 1997, afaik.

    So, we have to talk again in the year xxxx. But I'd expect clearly more than only nine .
    I mean, 744, you don't get much more in a longhaul cockpit. ND, PFD, two EICAS displays, TCAS, GPWS, et cetera...

    That's the thing which in my eyes is so cute, the Qatari 747SP still is younger than me, but between 79 and 97 something happened in a 747 cockpit.
    So, thirtyone? Not too much for a 30 year old perfectly maintenanced 747-400, with 350 seats.

    But let's wait until 2027.

    PS: One moment. Probably I have a better idea. BKK during the season is a LH-B744 destination. So, .. I know that LH has never used the 747 for the DUS schedule. And I've never tried DUS - BKK nonstop in Randazzo's 744 simulator, because the DUS rwys are really rather short for a 747 with MTOW. But DUS - JFK is possible in a 744, I've tested that. So, for the last two flights. And then we sell her to ATL.
    Last edited by LH-B744; 06-28-2019 at 03:03 AM. Reason: One of my wet dreams. Member of the 747 club since 49.5 years (join date March 1970).
    LH also has a intercontinental history, the Hamburg - Düsseldorf - Shannon - NYC route, open since June 1st, 1955.
    A/C type: Lockheed Super Constellation.
    The operator on the DUS - NYC route, on the DUS - BKK route, and on the shiny new DUS - LAS nonstop route? EW, one of the dearest LH daughters .

    Aviation enthusiast since more than 30 years. A whole decade here on this platform.

  14. #194
    Member ATLcrew's Avatar
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    I would imagine an LH 744 would be a very high-time airframe by now, well over 100,000 hours. The SP has under 70,000.

  15. #195
    Senior Member LUNN's Avatar
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    Some more ex-747 operators:

    EVA Air and EVA Cargo
    Japan Air Defence
    Kuwait Airways
    Med View
    United Charter

    Temporary leased also ended for LATAM Chile, Norwegian,and Sun Express.


  16. #196
    Senior Member LUNN's Avatar
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    Saudi and Bahrain govt 747SP are gone as well.


  17. #197
    Senior Member LUNN's Avatar
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    Qantas is to end 747 service in October.


  18. #198
    Junior Member Tim Bowrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LUNN View Post
    Qantas is to end 747 service in October.
    Thats only VH-OJU which ends on 13OCT19, there will still be x6 747-400/ER's to remain flying until the last one leaves the fleet and the end of 2020.

  19. #199
    Senior Member LUNN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Bowrey View Post
    Thats only VH-OJU which ends on 13OCT19, there will still be x6 747-400/ER's to remain flying until the last one leaves the fleet and the end of 2020.
    Was going to change it to El Al which have announced same month for theirs.


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