Malaysia Airlines Loses Contact With 777 en Route to Beijing

[Evan]

Well, apparently we have hundreds or thousands of people flying on fake/stolen passports everyday and not downing airplanes.

These two guys could be simply two "friends" doing something illegal that is irrelevant for this disaster (illegal immigration, escaping prosecution, smuggling...). Then again, maybe not...

True. Maybe it's not so hard for a couple of would be immigrants to buy two stolen passports in Malaysia. Anyway, even if these were terrorists, there is the question of how they could expect to get weapons reliably through security (the lack of wreckage thus far seems to contradict a castastrophic bombing scenario). I just don't think hijacking a major carrier like Malaysian is considered a real possibility these days. The few foiled bombing attempts we have seen since 9/11 have been the work of individual nutjobs. And the lack of any claims or demands (that we know of) also points away from terrorism.

[eTang]

True. Maybe it's not so hard for a couple of would be immigrants to buy two stolen passports in Malaysia. Anyway, even if these were terrorists, there is the question of how they could expect to get weapons reliably through security (the lack of wreckage thus far seems to contradict a castastrophic bombing scenario). I just don't think hijacking a major carrier like Malaysian is considered a real possibility these days. The few foiled bombing attempts we have seen since 9/11 have been the work of individual nutjobs. And the lack of any claims or demands (that we know of) also points away from terrorism.

In which case we'd be back to a JAL123 or TWA800 scenario, right?

The 2nd does not go with the acclaimed back turn on miltary radar.
The 1st one would ... though in this case: why no distress call of the crew? Also: why no signals of aircraft systems malfunction transmitted to Malaysian Airlines?

[phoneman]

Air India flt 182 was blown up by a bomb, no one claimed responsibility! Some terrorists don't want any retaliation against them. As I recall, when Air Alaska crashed into the sea, there was nothing on the surface to indicate a plane crash. It just looked like a small amount of dirt clumped together.

[georgel]

You can disable anything you want in the aircraft. Just pull the appropriate circuit breaker.

Or as is with ADS-B just switch off the XPDR by rotating its knob... Offtopic: Not all of the CBs are in the cockpit though. Plus systems like FDRs are not fed only by one bus and hardly can be switched off by pulling a single CB...

[AVION1]

Or as is with ADS-B just switch off the XPDR by rotating its knob... Offtopic: Not all of the CBs are in the cockpit though. Plus systems like FDRs are not fed only by one bus and hardly can be switched off by pulling a single CB...

I am not 100% sure about the Boeing 777, I have only worked on 727, DC-8 and Metro III as A&P mechanic. On all of them you can disable anything you want from the CB panel located behind the co-pilot seat or the F/E seat.

[tsv]

But still then: what would you want to do with a 777. And where could you land/re-start it unobserved?

Precisely nowhere Mate. I am stuffed if I know where this Airliner is but unfortunately it has not landed safely at some "hidden" Airport without anyone noticing.

[Evan]

USN P3C is reported on station today.

http://www.stripes.com/news/navy/p-3c-orion-assists-in-search-for-missing-malaysia-airlines-plane-1.271996

[Evan]

Depth soundings in the search area:

http://www.charts.noaa.gov/NGAViewer/93010.shtml

[brianw999]

Any chance of using plain English instead of all these abbreviations and initials. There are people reading this thread who haven't got a clue what you mean but would still like to read and understand.

[MairzyDotes]

Here's something that might be relevant in combination with the two stolen passports and the connecting flights out of PEK: Citizens of the European Union can get a 72-hrs visa-free transit in The People's Republic of China, which means Chinese authorities wouldn't check them beforehand, and the airline wouldn't ask for a visa when trying to board on an EU passport and a ticket with an onward connection out of PEK.

Yeah that was what I was thinking...that and one-way tickets. Not something to immediately believe is related but not something to ignore either. Hopefully regardless of what caused it, airlines are more vigilant about checking Interpol and other databases on stolen passports. Even if it's not relevant this time what about next time and do you want people who intend to cause harm to know an airline's not checking?

Doesn't necessarily mean it's related. Other crashes including an Air India had passengers with fraudulent passports, at least 10 in that case. Still you have to examine every angle.

Latest I read unconfirmed is that 1) flight might have broken up at 35,000 feet but is this speculation based on debris pattern (or lack of)

2) Flight might have turned back, again not confirmed.

I hope they find some debris soon. It's hard when it's prolonged. Having lost a friend of my parents on AA flight 191 and known a woman who lost parents on PSA 1771, it can be frustrating waiting for answers. I feel for the loved ones in this case, I really do and they're in my prayers.

[Fear_of_Flying]

F_o_F's reflections

Having now read through this thread, a few things come to mind. First, of course, sympathies to those who are in any way connected to this tragedy. I can't imagine how difficult it must be to comprehend.

Second, I am impressed by the restraint and reason shown here. I feel that the most probable causes have been pointed out, without anyone latching onto any one theory as the "only explanation", or anyone crazily ranting about some improbable scenario as the truth.

Next, it just seems so strange that the two most significant accidents in recent times have been so mysterious. With all the technology in the airline industry - so much tracking, radar capability, not to mention real time personal communications even from passengers - it's hard to believe that for the second time we have so little to go on.

Having said that, I wonder how soon after AF447 went down a lot of people really had a pretty good idea of what happened, even without the wreckage. The fact that the plane was in an intense tropical thunderstorm, and the faulty airspeed messages came through similar to previous documented examples... one has to think investigators knew what was going on. I suspect maybe the same is true here. There's certainly evidence we don't have, plus some we do have, and it could well be pointing in a fairly obvious direction.

As for the wreckage itself not yet being found, I'm not so mystified. In the next 1-3 days, we're going to start getting a lot more of that. I again think back to AF447. The impact of that aircraft was extremely violent, but it still submerged in a small number of large pieces. That might be true here, as well.

I remember a sad time several years ago, when a child on the east coast of Canada was lost in a campground. Hundreds of people joined hands sweeping the area trying to find him, but when eventually he was found days later, he had died of exposure. Finding a relatively small object in a large area isn't always as easy as it might seem.

As far as what happened to this aircraft, sheesh. I know terrorism seems like a very plausible explanation. But I just don't know. A terrorist attack should be making a clear political statement, and I don't see that here. Yeah, there are precedents where the terrorist's motives are equally undefined. But until we rule out a catastrophic structural or electrical failure, not to mention the ubiquitous pilot error, I still put terrorism farther down on the list. Luckily, if it was explosives, there should be telltale signs of them.

[old timer]

Any chance of using plain English instead of all these abbreviations and initials. There are people reading this thread who haven't got a clue what you mean but would still like to read and understand.

Agree.

[andyb99]

news in the uk (tv) has just reported a possible spotting of a door lifecraft off the coast of vietnam. helicopters on the way now.

[B52STRATO]

Any chance of using plain English instead of all these abbreviations and initials. There are people reading this thread who haven't got a clue what you mean but would still like to read and understand.

As my old and first instructor told me, "if we used all these QNH, QFE, QFU and other abbreviations, it is only to confuse and annoy our fellows from the administration!"

[James Bond]

news in the uk (tv) has just reported a possible spotting of a door lifecraft off the coast of vietnam. helicopters on the way now.

Not sure if it's the same thing but CNN just said that it's been checked and it isn't "a liferaft".